Tag: pitocin

Hi, thanks so much for coming on the show, can you tell us your name and where you’re from.

Keisha: Yeah, my name is Keisha Graham and I’m from Richmond, Virginia. 

P: Great….And Keesha How many kids do you have, 

K: I have two, two girls. My oldest is 12 and my youngest is six. 

P: Oh nice. 

K: Yeah, we’re a household of girls so no one knows how old we are, we all lie about our age.

P: Excellent, good as long as you keep in the family, it’s perfect.

K:  Exactly. 

P: So before you got pregnant with your first, he wants to have some idea about what pregnancy, like, what were you imagining it would be like?

K: The only thing I knew about pregnancy before I gave birth was what I saw on TV, and I had a cousin who had a baby a little bit before I did she have two babies actually and I had spent some time with her like her husband was deployed so I went to her state and helped her raise her two little kids but I didn’t see her, Like be pregnant I knew kind of what raising a family was like, but pregnancy was kind of like foreign to me, except for what I saw on TV.

 

P: So does that mean that you’ve thought it would be easy or, you know, you’d be gorgeous the whole time or

 

K: I didn’t, I didn’t go in, I’m somebody who just doesn’t go in with anything with any high expectations, so I thought that if there was anything that I needed to know I definitely would get it from my provider or, you know, my mom or my grandma would tell me or my cousins, I just thought that it would be simple and like straightforward. 

P: Okay, that’s a good setup. Alright, here we are. So, did you get pregnant easily the first time?

K: Yeah, it was an oops, 

P: I’m glad. I’m glad to meet an oops because you’re the story we’re all chasing right? everyone thinks like…. so good that’s true in some cases. 

K: The first one is easy but the second time is hard, is the second time we were planning and it took a while. 

P: So let’s focus on the first one, and you found out with like a pregnancy test I assume like a home kit. 

K: Yep, I went to CVS, I find out that I always find out that I’m pregnant pretty early. So on my lunch break, I went and got a pregnancy test and took it and, you know, text, my boyfriend, my husband now that we were having a baby. 

P: Oh wow. 

K: Yeah.

 

P: And how was that first pregnancy, what was that like?

K: it was pretty easy, it was pretty straightforward. I had no sickness had no complications. You know, it was the ideal pregnancy, you know, heartburn, that was the biggest thing that I think I threw up once.

 

P: Great. So far this is great, this is going great…so take us to the birth and like, are you 40 weeks and I myself, maybe I’m the only one I didn’t know what a contraction would feel like so I didn’t know I was having contractions when I was, like, tell us that whole story.

K: My birth story. Yeah, is when things get different, so yeah I thought I was going to get everything from my provider, I trusted my provider. So my due date was December I think it was the 16th and then I think I went to my 40 week appointment on the 22nd. And so they did an ultrasound, and the ultrasound tech said, your fluids are a little low, but nothing to be concerned about. I went to see my OB, and she was like, Do you want to see your baby today, and I was like, Sure, 

P: yeah. 

K: And never told me anything about what my cervix was doing if my cervix is ready to be born.

 

P: Okay, what does your cervix look like in labor in early labor your cervix starts to open or dilate and it stretches and gets thinner which is called a placement or softening or ripening. If your doctor is testing the readiness of your cervix, it will be closer to ready when it’s softer as labor progresses the cervix which is about four centimeters long, thins to the width of a piece of paper, and will open from the width of a blueberry to the width of a melon about 10 centimeters, you’ll be given the go ahead to push. If you’re being induced doctors may use drugs to ripen the cervix, that try to mimic the hormones, your body will produce to get that job done, and the hormones cause the cervix to thin and your uterus to contract

K: that inductions sometimes take a while, and mines ended up being two and a half days.

P: Oh my God, that’s a long time. So, so did you get to like go home and get your stuff and then come back to the hospital or how did that go

K: No, I just went right up to labor and delivery, my boyfriend was supposed to go to work that day so we had to pull out of work. I had my mom bring my stuff up, and you know, We thought it was gonna be pretty quick. She said, Do you want to see your baby today so I thought, you know, maybe midnight I would at least, you know, have a child.

P: Yeah, today implies today. I’m with you. Yeah, so they get you in the hospital room. Did they put you on Pitocin or what was the process.

K: So that part’s, it was a blur. So I started with a servo, I do remember I started with some Adele, and it was hard, just like any cervical ripener, it was sharp and crampy. And I wasn’t given like the option of what drugs, I could take or what my options were at that point, everything was just. Here you go, this is how we’re going to do it, do you want me to refill your water, so I started with cervidil  and after that took a while, that took a long time and then

P:  I had no idea It felt like anything. 

K: Yeah, it feels like cramps, it feels scratchy on your cervix. Well, this was my experience, it was scratchy on my cervix, and I felt it being there, and then I felt like really strong crampy sensation after, 

P: so uncomfortable is what it sounds like, 

K: yeah, it was terrible. 

P: And then what happens next. 

K: And so then, at that point I get Pitocin. And then, I was on Pitocin for a while, and then after Pitocin I will while I was on Pitocin. I ended up getting an epidural.

P: Did your contractions start with Pitocin like does that work.

K: Yeah, I think, with the cervical it was working for a little bit but they weren’t as strong and then serve it only takes you, but for, you know, so far, it only like ripens the cervix is not going to dilate the cervix so at that point after I was as ripe as I was going to get I guess they were like Pitocin is next. Sorry, I was in a while. 

P: And what was that like, 

K: pitocin was hard but then I got an epidural. So, everything, where everything else that I felt physically was fine after that point. So I have a lot of introduction like interventions. After that point, and you know I kind of breeze through them, it was pretty simple.

 

P: So they give you the epidural and then and I just kind of waiting right till you’re dilated enough.

K: So the nurses come in again. They like roll check your cervix after X amount of time they check it it’s not where they want it to be so they introduce another intervention. So then after the Pitocin. I get my water broken, actually, with this birth, it wasn’t like there was no consent, it was, I’m in here. I’m gonna break your water, it’s done.

P: I’m already feeling like this is a bummer because this doesn’t at all sound like, do you want to see your baby today, like it not just that does not, I would not feel and that’s what this means, right,

 

K: it’s in a baby factor you know we need a bed, so we’re gonna do all of these things, so that we can open up the spin, but you’re not going fast enough, you’re not on our time clock so this is what we’re going to do.

P: Yikes, so, so do that, are you there for a full day before they break your water or how does that all go.

K: Water was broken, the next day so I did the cervidil and the pitocin from the first day. Yeah, and then chosen overnight and then my water was broken. The next morning, 

P: and then it sounds like you labored that whole day. 

K: Still laboring day. At that point you know they’re just cranking up the Pitocin. Yeah, just to get my contractions where they want it to be. And that’s the second day.

P: : And then can you feel that or has the epidurall worn off at this point or

K: no it’s still going, and I had a really strong epidural one stronger than what I needed. Yeah, so I’m just lying in the bed like no one’s telling me that I can move like what I know about labor now is that even with an epidural, you can move a little bit, and that helps progress the labor, no I was kind of just laying there, waiting for the staff to do something next to me. I didn’t know if he like an active participant at all.

P: Yeah that doesn’t sound pleasant Good lord, so then…now you’re there for two nights. And then what happens the next day.

K: The next day is Christmas Eve, and my doctor comes in and says well you have to have this baby by noon because I’m going on vacation. And so I’m just like, look at her like, there’s at this point I’m already feeling defeated, I’m already feeling like, you know, you’re just doing stuff to me you’re not telling me what’s going on. Not knowing that I could ask questions because this was my first hospital stay, it was, you know the first time, yeah that I’ve probably ever been in the hospital I don’t think I’ve ever like this had to visit anyone in the hospital. So you don’t know what questions to ask you don’t know what you can say to your doctor, you know you’re looking to them as the, as authority figure at this point, and that person comes in and tells you that you’re not working on their timeline, and it just feels so defeating

P: that I have to say that’s crazy to verbalize I’m going on vacation and you have to go. I can imagine someone’s thinking that but not saying,

K: yeah, it was Christmas Eve, and it’s like my family just Christmas he really big like we all get together and I just thought that I would be home with my baby. 

P: Yeah 

K: because you told me I think my baby today, so she that’s what happened that day, she told me, I’m leaving. At this time, and so she left. At that time, even though we were just continuing to wait I didn’t have many other interventions at that point, they did an internal monitor right before I started pushing my baby’s heart rate was descending. So they gave me an internal monitor, and then it was time to push and I pushed for two hours. Yeah, they got pushed for two hours just about a vacuum was used to get my baby out, and then she was born. When she was born she was brought to my chest, but I didn’t want her there, I kinda was like, no, just because I wasn’t feeling anything like I knew that after you give birth, you’re supposed to feel all these things, and it’s supposed to be this like beautiful moment but I didn’t feel like that. So I, you know, told them to take her over to the warmer, and you know I saw her from there but I just, it just didn’t feel right at that time because of everything that I went through over the last two and a half days.

P: Yeah and it from the stuff I read if you have Pitocin but you aren’t producing it yourself. It’s a totally different. You’re in a totally different mindspace right if your body was producing Pitocin you would have gotten it in your brain, which helps with the connection. But if we’re getting it artificially 

K: Yeah,

P: you’’re not getting that right so

K: right, we are my girl I work with likes to say it’s called like the Oscar award winning speech after you have the baby you have like this, oxytocin high does oxytocin rush so you’re like, thinking everybody you’re checking fingers and toes you’re doing all of these things, because, you know, oxytocin does that to us. That’s why they call it like the love hormone, but yeah Pitocin doesn’t it just brings on contractions, it just does what it’s supposed to do. Give you contraction, Stop hemorrhaging.

 

P: Yeah, so it sounds like. It makes sense how you are feeling right like you’re responding to everything that has happened over the last two and a half days which is just disappointing. And but the baby’s fine. 

K: She’s fine, she was healthy 12 fingers 10 toes. She’s amazing and she do

P: How long do you guys stay in the hospital after that,

K: we stay there for I think two days. Yeah, we went home on the 26 I nursed you know her, she was a great nurse or it was fine, but yeah I’m sent home with this baby, and trauma from my experience in my labor.

 

P: And did you recognize it in the moment, like, did you think oh this was traumatic.

K: Oh, no, it wasn’t right, but I didn’t think that it was traumatic and so after processing my own postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety that I had throughout the time, like my postpartum period.

 

P: Well that sounds really hard from the stuff I’ve read it looks like one in seven women have postpartum depression. And somewhere, I think in the Cleveland Clinic I read some article that said, it’s the most common condition of childbearing. 

K: Yeah, oh yeah, it’s really up there. 

P: So, did you recognize, like in the fourth trimester that you were having postpartum depression or did you just think, oh my god, this sucks.

K: The postpartum anxiety was the thing that postpartum depression didn’t get to me as much as my postpartum anxiety did. I had very bad intrusive thoughts, and I kept saying to myself, This isn’t normal. This isn’t normal but I didn’t have anyone to talk to about it. I had a trusted network of friends, I didn’t have a professional that I could go to about it. I wanted to talk to my doctor, but I didn’t like her. 

P: Yeah. I bet

K: And then we would do screenings at the pediatricians appointment but I didn’t feel that I can talk to them about it as well, or the things that I did say they were like yeah that’s just baby blues, but by the time I really realized that I had postpartum anxiety I think I was, I was well out of it, which is great but also could have, it would have been beneficial for me to get help sooner or couldn’t recognize the signs sooner. 

P: Yeah, that’s the story I hear from a lot of women. I think it’s hard to recognize while you’re in it, because you’re busy being anxious or you know whatever right so and so did you become a doula between the first birth and the second birth or tell that story.

K: Yup…I became a doula between the two. So after my birth experience, I went to births with like friends and family, just as someone who had seen it before, because I, when I gave birth in my early 20s I think it was 21 when I had my daughter, so by the time my group of friends, like started to have their own children, I had already been there done that so I wanted to go with them to just help them out, because I knew my experience wasn’t typical or should not have been typical but found out that my experience was, was typical, 

P: I was curious about how common it was for women to have bad birth experiences, like the one Keisha described, and found a giving voice to Mother survey published in 2019 that sought to better understand women’s lived experiences giving birth.  The survey didn’t include a huge sample but it was just over 2000 people. And basically what the researchers found was that one in six women who filled out the survey were mistreated in some way during this very vulnerable period, during and after birth, they reported issues like loss of autonomy, being shouted at scolded or threatened and being ignored refused or receiving no response to requests for help, and the factors is associated with a lower likelihood of mistreatment, so you’re more likely to have a better experience if you had a vaginal delivery, a community birth a midwife, you were white, you’d have a baby before you were older than 30 years old.

K: I knew that that couldn’t be right because it’s not what I saw on TV. That’s not how I saw, you know, whoever on Friends give birth, is that how I saw like white women being treated. So I had a friend who told me she was like well you should be a midwife. And I was like okay that sounds cool and I looked online and saw that that required a lot of school and I was like, No. So then I had the same friend said well you should be a doula. And then I looked at that and I was like yeah doula work is more my speed. It’s something I really want to do.

 

P: So tell us how like has it, what’s that like was the training like and, and what was your experience and

K: that the universe like really lined up for me to be a doula after I found out what doula. What a doula was, I was working at a location that was recording podcasts for a doula training organization to labor. And so we just happened to be in the same space where I was talking about it. And the owner of that organization was there and she’s like yeah you should come and do one of our trainings. And so I looked it up and they were local so I did the three day training to become a birth doula. It took me a while, but from the time that I decided that that was something that I wanted to do till the time that I took the training. It took me a couple of years, but I think I was going to births I was doing the work, and I think it’s nice seeing that people weren’t being treated the way that they should and labor was really what gave me that momentum to say okay yeah I need to do this work. I actually attended the training after my second labor. 

So my second labor I changed providers. It was my third pregnancy. So as my second pregnancy I miscarried and I miscarried pretty early, but I had changed providers pretty early with that pregnancy, and then I had a provider, that was so amazing so supportive. I remember when I did miscarry pretty early, she, you know, I mean my husband come in her office, and I remember like crying in her office and she and I told her I said something like, I know you have other patients to see today and we’re leaving to get out of your hair and she’s like, No, you say, and process this, however you need to. And so I just knew that this was the person that needed to deliver my kids, any more than I have after this. So then, 

P: that sounds lovely 

K: yeah she was amazing. I still love her.

P: So we’re so this is the pregnancy where you said it was hard to get pregnant, this time.

K: So it took a while for me to pregnant again and but I get pregnant again. And, well, I thought it was gonna be so easy because the first few times were so easy, it was just like, they just happened…. the one I was really thinking about it, like I was going to try again, it took it took a while, so we got pregnant. A year later, and yeah, had a very empowering labor I still had lots of interventions, but I had a provider that made the time to tell me my options and my choices, and gave me the power that I needed back into my labor. 

P: So maybe what walk through that slowly so, so people can see the difference between the first and the second. 

K: I had a lot more information in the prenatal period, I was more than just my blood pressure my fundal height peeing in a cup and then asking if I had any questions. She was very forthcoming with all of the information that I needed to know just by asking me, Hey, have you taken any childbirth education classes do you know where to find them. These are the options that we have here in our office, but I’m sure there’s some more around, you know. Feel free to go look. She was telling me about my baby how my baby was growing, the things that I could do, you know, to help my baby grow, just a lot of information in the prenatal period. So I felt safe. When I went into labor. I just knew that I was going to go into, into this through an induction because I was induced last time so I just knew that I was going to be induced. But I ended up going into labor on my own at home and I stayed home for as long as possible, which was something that I didn’t think that I could do, but my provider made me feel really comfortable in doing that. But when I got to the hospital I was in active labor. 

P: Oh wow, really well. 

K: Yeah, I progressed really well. And then, at six centimeters hit a wall, I was like, No, I don’t want to do the same or it’s 2021 Give me all the drugs, or it wasn’t 21 it was 2014 Give me all the drugs so I have been told that it was, I will actually, before the epidural, I get Nitrus nitrous oxide.

P: Nitrous oxide, otherwise known as laughing gas is a form of anesthesia that you inhale, it sounds like it’s a pretty weak form of anesthesia, it’s usually used in pediatric dentistry, to give you a sense, but it does do something and it works quickly,

K: and that held me over for a while, while I couldn’t get into the shower, so I had to come out of the shower every hour or so for monitoring of the baby. I think at that time this particular hospital didn’t have wireless monitors so I had to get out of the shower to come get monitored, and so that was very hard, like contractions are really hard when I was out of the shower. So at one point I didn’t want to keep going back and forth so they gave me a nice choice, and that was really good pain relief option, and then the tank ran out. It was, I think I was probably like the second person in the hospital to ever use it or something but they were telling me it was very new to the hospital system at this time. So the tank right now, the nurses, even know how to use it at first, it was a mess. But it was helpful when I was able to use so after it was done I said I’m going to get an epidural. And then I got my epidural, and labor beautifully after that, I don’t think they needed to break my water until the very end because I had just a little bit of space left my baby was Opie which is occiput posterior Sunny side up. So, my cervix didn’t dilate all the way. So she was looking up instead of looking down when she was supposed to be, you know, the other way. 

P: Does that, does that mean a C section or 

K: No, no, sometimes it means longer Labor’s, and then in my case, it meant that my cervix didn’t dilate completely. Uh huh. It dialated, almost completely. So she broke my water to help try and get it to dilate more was like, like a half a centimeter, I guess, of dilation that needed to happen before they wanted me to start pushing, so she broke my water because of that, and I was like okay with that because she said either we can wait a while, or we could break your water, she gave me both options. And I was like no I’m tired. So let’s go ahead and do this, she broke it, we still waited a while, nothing happened. So we kind of just pushed past that little bit of dilation, which was fine. and I the second kid was born in 15 minutes. 

P: Oh Wow, well done.

K:  It was like three pushes 15 minutes is very quick. Yeah, so when it was time for me to push, I remember my doctor was sitting on the bed and saying, you know, all right, go ahead and push and I was like well, don’t you want me to put my legs on the stirrups Don’t you want me to do all of these things she’s like No, I’ll just do whatever you want. And that was just so empowering. It was just the greatest moment ever. So, I had a birth, that was traumatic but also had one that was so rewarding and empowering and I knew this is the type of birth that everyone should have.

 

P: That does sound like a story book kind of birth, where you’re making all the choices. 

K: Right. 

P: Yeah, that’s amazing. So now tell us I was saying to you before when I was having children, I don’t know if doulas were a thing or not but I, I was not aware of them. So give us a sense of what you’re doing for other people because I can’t, I can’t really imagine, doctors, kind of backing down if they’re if they’re sort of not approaching appropriately. 

K: Yeah, advocacy advocacy work is what I do, it was one of the things that led me to doula work was being able to, you know let people know of their options and their choices when they feel that they don’t have any or letting them know that it’s okay to ask questions. I never want to speak for anyone but just saying, you know, maybe there is another way, just ask, because you can ask questions to your doctor, and that’s okay. And they should give you that information. Consent is very important in this work as well making sure that everyone has informed consent for everything that happens throughout pregnancy, labor delivery in in their body and with their baby Afterwards,

Doula work is a lot of educational support in the beginning, especially, I mean, bindable free care, when you’re in the midwifery program it were free model care, you do tend to get a little bit more information than those who birth with an OB But yeah for those with an OB but or actually anyone in general really is just giving them evidence base, up to date information on whatever it is that they are going through in the pregnancy journey at that time, or that you may think that they need to know it’s anticipating folks needs as well.

P:  I’m guessing that you’re, you really shine in the labor and delivery room right because that’s when I think for sure for your first birth, most women don’t understand the degree to which they’ll be compromised when when everything’s going down right like all of a sudden you can’t really speak for yourself because you’re in excruciating pain or whatever you don’t know what’s going on. So, is it the case that like you’re having the talk with the mother or and then she’s communicating to get into the doctor like how does that all work.

K: We all talk together like I have no problem asking questions why providers are in the room where you know sometimes people might want a little bit of privacy or something like that to have conversations. I don’t know if we talk prenatally about some common complications that may come up and how to address them, giving you all of the tools that you need creatively to ask the right questions if something comes up, and then reminding you that you have those options to ask questions in the moment you can always ask, what are the benefits to this, what are the risks. Are there any alternatives. And then also, mostly advocating for more time for people.

Very rarely are people rushed into an emergency C section where they’re pulling cords out of the wall and then brushing them back to the or anything outside of that I’m always advocating for people to ask for just a few moments for them and their partner to talk about what’s going on, or to process what they just heard, so that way they’re not moving into the next steps with any doubt or worries, which they may still have but at least they have some, a little bit of time to process everything that’s going on and they can confidently move into that next step.

P: And you talked a little bit about your birth versus what you had seen for white women. I interviewed a woman at the Center for American Progress, and she works on maternal health issues among other things, and she was saying that for black women, the ways that racism finds its way into the delivery room are not always overt. So it’s not always like an obvious thing like, I don’t know that this woman was being racist with you but that’s an outrageous thing to say to a laboring woman…I don’t know what the was driving that her treatment of you but I wasn’t there but, but I’m imagining most of the circumstances are not quite as upfront as that.

 

K: Right, yeah, yeah, it’s, you know, biases that, yeah, yeah, that’s the face that people of color face when they are in labor. It’s a lot of, I don’t want to say the same type of stereotype, only because I am used to it and I, because it’s lived experience for me so I know what to look out for, but it is a lot of not ignoring or ignoring folks of color, their pain or their pain tolerance or thinking that they are exaggerating when they’re saying that something is wrong with them. It is a lot of ignoring their needs, and, you know, attending to the needs of someone else, ahead of them or something like or a white person’s needs, I should say, versus a person of color,

P: so in that instance you can go in like advocate for them and say no, she really needs another epidural or whatever like more.

K: Yeah. And luckily, I mean, The good thing about being a as a doula being able to see both sides and being able to be in the room for all types of people is that I can say, well, if they, if I have a nurse or a provider that says oh this is not how we do things here I can easily go back to experience that I’ve had with a white person is a well, actually this is how you did things how you’ve done it before, and this day and time, look at my notes. But

P: That seems super, that seems super powerful. That’s a great, great leverage to have.

K: So, yeah, it’s nice being able to advocate for folks in that way to say, you know, if they say, This isn’t how they do things I know that they do them, the opposite way,

P: I can imagine that is an unbelievably frustrating thing to hear when you’re in the mix and your client is in pain and need something right. 

K: Yeah, 

P: that sounds like a lot, so how long have you been a doula for.

K: So I’ve been professionally trained as a doula for four years, but I’ve been doing the work way before that.

P: That’s cool. So I bet you’ve been to a lot of births.

K: Yeah I think by the end of this year I will be probably well over 100 births. 

P: Wow, that seems like life affirming work. 

K: Yeah, it’s pretty exciting right. It’s always exciting, it’s always something new, 

P: and I’m imagining again when I was having kids there was no skin to skin, there was no like delayed cord clamping and that sort of stuff so it’s probably cool to be in a field where there’s constantly new and different things coming out.

K: Nice to be in a field where we’re bringing things back to the family, and out of the medical complex out of the doctor’s hands and bringing it back to the family like the skin the skin the delayed cord clamping. I even advocate for fathers to try and catch their babies we talk a lot about that. 

P: Oh, that’s cool. 

K: Yeah, because, I mean, they mean my job is to make sure that partners, I should say fathers, but partners are active participants in their labor as well like this is a family events, and not something that doctors have to oversee completely.

P: That’s super cool and I know that my husband had no idea what to do, I mean I had c sections but he’s still like, I want to go hide in that corner and you call me, so it’s nice to have someone who knows what he’s doing to kind of guide that process.

K: I think that I biggest, another one of my biggest roles is normalizing the process as well, so that partners don’t have to worry so much about advocating and, you know, answering all the questions and knowing all of the things, while the birthing person is in pain in going through their stuff. So I’m able to be like oh, that’s normal. Yeah, she’s throwing up, that’s okay.

P: Yeah. Don’t mind her yes that’s very funny. I thought that most states don’t allow insurance to cover doula services is that your experience. 

K: Yeah, in Virginia, we don’t take like the insurance companies don’t cover the list services. There are current bills being passed or laws going into effect, that where doulas can be covered by Medicaid. But I haven’t seen much where doulas are covered through private insurance. A lot of folks can use their HSA or their FSA account to pay for doula services, okay. Yeah, medical insurance.

P: That’s super cool. That is very cool work and it’s a totally interesting way to go into it right to have had your experience and think like I can fix this. 

K: Right, yeah, 

P: God how rewarding that’s cool. So, how do people find you if they’re in Virginia, the Virginia area, I’m assuming you don’t work outside of Virginia.

K: I do virtual work. Yeah, I mean this pandemic has opened up so many lanes for doula work since a lot of hospitals were closing their doors to doulas, we still needed an avenue to get into help families, so we do virtual work so I do virtual doula work for anyone, anywhere. If they need a doula. But if you are in Virginia, and you’re looking for someone local, you can find me on Instagram at Keyshia does work, or on doula match dotnet, and under my name Kesha Graham,

P: so that’s awwesome, I’ll put that on the show notes so people can find it. What’s it like to be virtual for birth, or do they have you in the labor and delivery room like on phone.

K: yeah, I mean FaceTime or we can check in every now and then where we can ask questions, if it’s really tailored to whatever it is that you need but yeah I mean I’ve done like FaceTime, where I’m just like on a tripod. Like, you got it. You can do it, you know it’s a lot of coaching at that point but also reminding families that you know they have choices they have options they have power in their experience and they should wield that power.

P: That’s amazing. And I can imagine, if I were in the circumstance where I actually had to push a baby out. I would probably trust you more than my husband because you’ve seen it before. Right, yeah. You know I can do it. He’s got no idea. So that’s super cool that’s an awesome job.

K: Thank you. Yeah, I love it. It’s really amazing. I love I love seeing families, work together, I am of the same like mindset that you are like, let the doula handle it. A lot of a lot of partners really get this like power inside of them that they don’t know is there when they’re faced with their partner going through something really hard that I really like to see. Yeah, I like the best births and when I just stand in the corner and get to watch families do their thing.

P: That’s amazing. What’s your ideas about C sections and like the stuff I’ve read is that, you know, there’s obviously serious surgery and you’re much more at risk to have some kind of complication if you go through a C section. And the other thing I saw that was kind of damning said the biggest predictor of whether you’ll have a C section or not is the hospital you’re in, as opposed to your medical condition. So that’s suggestssomething wacky is going on, what’s your experience because C sections of do you try to turn them around or how do you deal with that.

K: I’m not there to give anybody medical advice.

P:  Okay, 

K: so if the doctors are calling for a C section, you know, the only thing that I am able to do within my scope is to have the family ask questions and then help them come up with the questions to ask to see if it’s a true emergency or if they have a little bit more time, my own opinion on C sections but they are here for a reason. But with the current rates of C sections in knowing that there isn’t this big decline with mortality, mortality and morbidity, then we still know that C sections are being over utilized

P:  Yeah. 

K: From what I see sometimes I feel again me as someone who only took a few day training and has attended a limited amount of births I feel that sometimes you know, maybe things just need a little bit more time. And then I do feel that they are a little bit rushed, but, you know, again, I’m not a medical professional so

P: yeah I mean it just you’ve heard these stories where like the baby’s not in distress or anything. And they have a C section and you’re watching like any there’s the mother, so

K: that’s why provider choice is so important. That’s why place a birth is so important there is a thing of birth culture, like, your hospital is going to have their own individual birth culture, culture, so it is important to talk to families who have birth at the place of birth, where you’re going to birth, and have been with the provider that you’re going to see when weighing those options about C sections and I think it’s important for everyone to talk about C sections because we don’t know who is going to need a surgical birth, versus, you know, a bachelor one,

P: I assume there’s no like scorecard where you could see kind of what your hospital does, or is there some way to evaluate the, the environment you’re about to go into

K: some states have C section rates listed on their state website or you can find it on the hospital website, But sometimes, information if it looks kind of unfavorable it’s kind of hush hush so you kind of have to scour the internet and the message boards to find out that information,

P: but but usually someone is keeping track of that, so

K:  it’s out there is out there, but

sometimes it’s outdated I think for in my seat I think some of the information is a couple of years old.

P:  Okay. Okay, interesting. Well, that’s also a good idea. So reason number 87 to get a doula is to be made aware of all these things that you should be checking on. 

K: Oh yeah, definitely for sure. 

P: Thanks so much for coming on, I totally appreciate your time and your story. 

K: Thank you. Appreciate it.