Episode 16 SN: The Challenges of a Reluctant Cervix: Stefanie

P: Hi, thanks so much for coming on the show, can you introduce yourself and tell us where you’re from.

Stephanie: Yes, so I’m Stephanie Hussein Ramadi and I am based in the UK, on the outskirts of London.

P: Lovely I’m wildly jealous…

S: Really?

P: And Stephanie. How many kids do you have,

S: I’ve got two boys, Five years old and 11 months 11 months.

P: Wow, yeah, yeah you’re busy.

S: Sure am.

P: And before you had the kids, I’m imagining that you had some idea about what pregnancy was like, what, what did you imagine it would be before you got there,

S: I just imagine a you get pregnant when you’re ready to get pregnant, you get pregnant and you know you have a smooth journey, pregnant for nine months but in fact is 10 months. And, you know, you go to the hospital, you have your baby healthy baby and somehow you just become a mom isn’t it, so that is how I visioned it be like, I was pregnant I didn’t read up on any other watching videos or read up on stories because I didn’t want anything distorting my thoughts about pregnancy

P: yeah, that’s fair. So let’s go back to the, let’s go back to the beginning that wasn’t easy to get pregnant.

S: So my first one, yes I got pregnant pretty much straightaway. And my second one, it took longer.

P: So, let’s go through the first one first then so you get pregnant easily, and then you find out with like a home kit. Yeah, yeah.

S: So I found that with like yeah home kit, yeah, that’s, I think that’s what everyone uses anyway.

P: Yeah,

S: I found that because probably about six weeks or so already, when I found out I had to sell I had like the sore boobs and stuff, but obviously  I didn’t know if it was pregnancy or not, my first one, isn’t it.

P: Yeah, yeah

S: so yes I just took the test and straight away like literally immediately came up positive. Yes. Okay. Good.

P: That’s Awesome. And how was that pregnancy.

S: that pregnancy was good to get the pregnancy was good, I had no complications during the pregnancy, I didn’t really put on much weight I only had baby weight. My baby balm I was healthy moved around fine. Like, I still felt like myself basically. Yeah, and I think it got complicated when it came to delivery.

P: So what what happened there, were you imagining like a natural birth or what did you want.

S: so I plan to have a water birth. I’ve always had an obsession water birth. And then about just over about a week before I was June I felt like my water had broken. It wasn’t a Gush, but there was just constantly can basically. And after I put down a sanitary towel just to be sure, and it was getting soaked so quickly, so obviously I called the hospital to say this is what is going on. They advised me to come in. And when they did examine me they were like, Are you sure your water is breaking any evidence I had was the sanitary towels and they could see it was so. Yeah, and then eventually they said oh, might be one of your bags apparently we have two bags of water on there by that, but maybe it’s just one of them, that has leaked basically.

P: apparently, there are two layers to the amniotic sac. The amnion, the intersect is the one that holds the baby, and the chorion is the outer membrane. These two bags are in contact with each other. By the end of the pregnancy have likely fused, but it’s possible to have a leak or tear of the chorion, which can repair itself and not be considered quote a ruptured membrane, I found an academic article from 2015, suggesting that there’s a new way to talk about this false rupture of membranes and true rupture of membranes. If the leaking fluid, bears no evidence of vernix that biofilm that protects the baby’s skin in utero or meconium. It’s just the corium that has broken,

S: which then meant that I had to deliver sooner than expected. So I had to come back, I’ve got sent home, and then have to come back in the next morning to be induced…so that basically meant my water birth was out the window because when your water breaks, and it can be risky for the baby. And not only that they found that there was meconium as well. So he had pooed inside me so yeah that was basically it. Yeah, we have to get this baby out, so induced me said I can give birth naturally. So when I say, naturally, and vaginal birth. I don’t want people to feel like C section is not natural. So, um yeah so that process started. Unfortunately, I wasn’t dilating quick enough. And it gave me,

P: were you’re having contractions or anything like Did you feel anything else.

S: I had slight contractions, to meet other names my pain thresholds, but there was contractions, but it wasn’t like oh my god I need to give birth, like it wasn’t like the pain wasn’t intense, to me, but according to the monitor. It was quite intense but I’m guessing it was my pain threshold.

P: My recollection of contractions is like I just that I took my breath away, so it wasn’t super painful but I couldn’t talk.

S: No, I could talk I was talking with nurses at the time, this was just, just beginning though but towards the end when they introduced me and it was now like every five seconds, every minute, every time, that’s when I was like, oh my god, I was so much pain right now. And but I was still bearing I still kept it I still kept going because they obviously wanted me to dilate, they couldn’t deliver. I was having like two minutes, one minute  contractions for, probably, maybe about seven hours.

P: Oh my god, wow,

S:  I still dilated to about four centimeters in that amount of time. Exactly. Go through this pain and I wanted to go in with no colors I didn’t want any of that I just wanted gas and air gas and air where the work was making me feel sick, to be honest. And after a while my mom was like, No, you have to take some painkillers.  This Pain is excruciating. Get some what’s it called again,

P: the epidural

S: epidural Yeah. Get some epidural, but by the time I got the epidural over the brain for so much pain I was just I was the point but I still took it anyways. Then it got to a stage or I know what your baby is now and distressed because you’ve just been in like this for too long.

P: Yeah,

S: your baby’s distress, his heart rate is dropping, we need to get this baby out so unfortunately for you. We have to do a C section because sometimes I really really strongly did not want. And I remember when they told me that I was literally in tears. I felt like my world was ending, not because it’s because I’ve never even thought about C section or even read about it, I just wanted a completely natural birth no painkillers and now you’re going to give me a C section,

P: yeah pretty much the opposite, right

S: Yeah, pretty much the opposite basically but basically you know, gave birth by an emergency C section, he did have an I did have to stay in hospital for about seven days, because he had suspected sepsis.

P: Oh wow.

S: Yeah, so they had to monitor him, but after the seven days, it cleared up, infection was gone. And yeah, and to be honest I haven’t had any other issues with him. Thank God for that. Yeah, healthy way, very active so definitely not the birth experience that I envisioned for myself.

P: How was your recovery from the C section.

S: It was really good I think. I’ve been thinking about it, I was a little weak my stitches were healed. As I was still able to lift my baby breastfeed him. I didn’t have issues. I wasn’t moving as much, but I was still moving like people couldn’t tell that I even had a C section because I was still able to move around, do what I needed to do, and I was blessed that entire because my mom was around with me so I didn’t have to do as much on my own. But I had a blessed speedy C section recovery. Back to my feet in no time.

P: that’s awesome.

S: Yeah, I remember at the hospital as well. Oh, That was another thing, when they did the C section, I lost a lot of blood. I am quite, I have low iron as well. So, another blow was they were telling me I need to, I might have to have a blood transfusion…what on earth is going on, but because of how active I was in the hospital I was able to go take my shower walk up and down there like to really see don’t look like someone who has lost a lot of blood that is low on iron, and if you do that you can maintain it, by taking the tablets, then we’re happy to discharge without having the transfusions, I was like no, there’s no way I’m going to have a transfusion. Like you can’t add any more to my plate.

P: Yeah, yeah. So how is it taking care of the baby and how long does your mom stay like do you have help?

S: My mom was with me for about a month, ideally at least like 10 minutes away from me, but she stayed physically with me for two weeks. Right. And then she came every day. Mom home, and after she left my mother in law actually came so the way our culture works is you know when you give, have that help. That’s you know, if you’re lucky to have your parents alive or close by. Yeah, yeah.

P: So when you say your culture does this, what does that mean.

S: So, I am originally Nigerian so I’m born British but my parents and my husband’s family in Nigerian as well. So in the Nigerian culture when you give birth, your mother or your mother in law, usually stay with you, for… back in Nigeria, they still review for about three months. But, yeah, and you’re not supposed to do anything so it’s for you to get healthy, get back on your feet, and just support you raising your child if your parents are not alive and you have an older sister. Then she usually does it for you. They would come for maybe like four to six weeks, and stay with you in your home until you know you have recovered, and you know, babies well and so yeah, that’s, that’s what I meant by in our culture so as soon as you give birth, you have that support with you, like they already know that’s what they’re meant to do.

P: That’s amazing.

S: it’s a bit more difficult here in the UK because in the UK. Our parents are working as well. So yeah, it can’t stay with us as long as we would like, but they try to stay for at least the first two weeks, or first month even.

P: That’s amazing. Wow.

S: Yeah, I would say for about six months straight I had health, which was good, especially you know, after having a C section being your first child as well.

P: You just don’t know what’s going on right so useful to have someone who does… my husband and I were just saying how postpartum care in the US is really meager. It’s like your first appointment is at six weeks and if you’re not lucky enough to live with near your family or have family living with you like people like your mom and your mother in law who know what to do. Yeah, it’s a really hard road to travel by yourself, right or like as new parents.

S: Yeah, it’s something that mums over here, who are struggling, we get seen, I think, day after you go home, so we get help to come to your house and in 10 days after as well. But after that once you’re discharged from the Health Visiting team, it can be lonely a lot and a lot of moms struggle with their babies is really a big it’s something that really needs to be implemented. I’m sure in the US and UK as well aftercare for months. Yeah, it’s so important.

P: Agreed. So it sounds like you were, you had a pretty smooth fourth trimester because you have people to tell you oh yeah, you’re doing it right or you’re doing it wrong or whatever.

S:Yeah.

P: Yeah. That sounds lovely was nice. It was nice,

S: but I do remember the beginning I was like, I just want my baby like just give me my baby basically is like. They weren’t feeding him, I was I was basically just you know, the milk factory, when he’s hungry they’ll bring it over to me once it’s fed, they will take over. I remember the first time I had a conversation with my husband like, I just want my baby basically like, why, but now that I look here, I am so grateful I had that support.

P: Yeah, yeah, I can totally I can totally imagine that feeling where you’re like, don’t I get to hold them. Right. So what’s your five year old into now

S: he’s at school right now…he’s super active he’s very into video games, which he gets from his father. Yeah, he’s really into video games right now and today was like his birthday back at school actually since

P: oh wow, yeah. That’s exciting. So tell us about your second one, what was that like?

S: my second one. But he, yeah it was difficult getting pregnant with him. So before him, I was actually pregnant, but I had a miscarriage, about six weeks…before I even got pregnant. I actually had an appointment with my doctor, just to check, you know that everything is right, and I had a scan and they told me that I had PCOS

P: PCOS or polycystic ovarian syndrome is a hormone disorder The egg might not develop as it should, or it might not get released during the menstrual periods like it should. That’s the problems with fertility. How common is it in the US, the Department of Health and Human Services is five to 10% of women between ages 15 and 44. Many women notice it when they try to get pregnant and have trouble.

S: And they were like, how did you get pregnant with your first child I was like, I had no issues literally within three months of trying to get pregnant,

P: did you not realize you had PCOS, did you not have any symptoms

S: not at all, because they were like people that usually have PCOS they usually put on weight quite easily, and then put on weight at all. Yeah, come up with them, they’re usually quite hairy as well and I didn’t have any of the typical symptoms so it’s literally when I went into get checked to say, you know, why is it taking me so long to get pregnant this time that they advise I go and do the scan and they saw that basically, even when I was pregnant with my first child, I had, there was nothing mentioned to me about PCOS I had several scans was nothing mentioned to me about that.

P: Yeah, that’s interesting. I wonder what that’s about. Dr. Wilcox thanks so much for coming on the show, it’s great to have your medical insights.

Dr. Wilcox: Well, happy to be here.

P: So after the birth of her first child Stephanie and her husband had trouble getting pregnant again. After scanning her doctor’s office they diagnosed PCOS. Is it unusual to find this out after getting pregnant so easily the first time.

Dr. W: Yeah, I mean, so polycystic ovarian syndrome, you know, can affect up to eight or 10% of women in her case I would say there’s different criteria for diagnosing it, so it may have just gone undiagnosed one criteria one part of the criteria can be the appearance of your ovaries on ultrasound, if they’ve looked polycystic in appearance, but a certain percentage women will have polycystic appearing ultrasounds. Ovaries on ultrasound and not have polycystic ovarian syndrome. So you really have to meet the most criteria for it, there’s two or three different commonly used criteria, you generally have to have irregular periods or evidence that you’re not ovulating regularly. So if someone has regular cycles, monthly cycles, but their ovaries appear polycystic on on ultrasound, I would say that probably is not meets the definition that sort of depends on what her situation was. Certainly if she is not ovulating regularly that can make it challenging to get pregnant, and that’s something that, that would be explored. If someone was having a hard time getting pregnant,

S: exactly. So, I was like okay, so that gave me the option of, you know, I have a keep on trying to dollar been trying for over a year, or I can go through the fertility treatment, right, because they’re like because you’ve already had a first child, you can just keep on trying, or go through this route and I said you know I’ve tried long enough, so let’s go down, down, fertility route and then they gave me an appointment which was about six months, I think it took about six of the appointment for six months. And literally, a month before the appointment I fell pregnant.

P: Ah,

S: and I literally have to call them and say, Okay, I’m pregnant, I didn’t need this equipment anymore, so so grateful for that.

P: That’s the way to do it.

S: So, the pregnancy itself was fine, I obviously still battle, I still battle with my low iron, when I’m pregnant, so I had to be on Iron tabs which was, for me, I don’t think they were working because even though I still got tested Every time I still got my blood tested my iron levels were still low. Well, we still went through the pregnancy the pregnancy was fine. I had no complications. Once again, smooth pregnancy, and then complication came when it was time I’m trying to think when the turning point was what actually happened. This was all during lockdown as well COVID period,

P: I hadn’t thought of that you’re right, a lot of dances in COVID Wow. Was it hard to be pregnant and COVID

S: so it was just starting so I gave birth to my son in March and COVID was just starting in March, okay. And at that time, there was still not allowing partners go into the hospital, you only have to go to your appointments yourself. Yeah, so I had just a routine scan. And when I went into the scan they told me I don’t have enough water around the baby, and they needed to do some more checks and so that’s how I ended up from going for routine scans, Then in the hospital overnight, and them telling me, you know, we’re going to don’t have enough water around a baby, so we have to deliver this child. And I went in as well so you know I want to try natural again so it was called VBAC. I don’t know if it’s cool yeah yeah,

P: so how far along, were you,

S: three days off…Yes, yeah. So a week before I was supposed to go in . So, yeah, So they said to me, we have to deliver this child because you don’t have enough water around him basically,

P: about 8% of women experience low amniotic fluid, if it’s low enough, it’s called oligohydramnios, which is less common, how you manage the situation depends on a bunch of things like its severity what caused it. That gestational age of the fetus, a bunch of different things can cause it like issues with the fetal kidneys, an issue with the placenta or leaking or ruptured membranes.

S: And I said okay on hold my husband, let him know what’s going on because I was on my own. Yeah, and like the next morning we’re going to induce you once again to already knew what this induced process is because that’s what I had with my first son, is that

P: basically like Pitocin or like,

S: yes, yeah, that liquid to make him attract quicker. And so they did. And once again, I had the same issues that I had with my first son was delayed dilation, yeah I was contracting, but I wasn’t dilating and they said, You know what, after about quite a while maybe like nine hours, says, Hey, I think we’re gonna have to do a C section with a let’s wait for a little bit waited for a little bit. And then notice, heart rate was not was not steady, There wasn’t quite sure what it was but they just knew it wasn’t steady so they said okay we’re gonna take it to theater, and we’re going to deliver this baby by C section, this time I was okay with a they already told me the risk because I’ve had a C section before I might actually have to end up having another one.

P: Yeah,

S: I was already aware I was more aware this time. Yeah, so it got to the root the beauty now and they say you know what your scar is starting to open up and we can see his fist poking through so that explains why his heart has been fluctuate it hasn’t been steady and when that happens, they literally have to get this child out within four minutes, but I didn’t know when they put me on GM general general anaesthetic and I was knocked out, I woke up and had a baby,

P: we I need to take a minute here, is that shocking, did you feel him like did your scar hurt or anything.

S: Well I just have epidural, to be honest so maybe that might be why. I didn’t see it myself personally, it’s only when they, when I got into theater, they’re getting ready to do what they need to do. And straightaway, they’re like, your scar is open up. That was one of the risks they warned me about as well. Early days when I said I wanted to have a be back though like there’s a risk there is a low percentage, yeah, yeah, there is a risk that your scar can open up again.

P: Also, kind of surprising since your older one is five years ahead of the younger one, right.

S: So I think it’s probably because of the prolonged delivery so in terms of me dilates me to pressure, yeah, I forgot the name of the delfy was having on my body for such a long time. He was just an active baby he wanted to get out of that, how come I really. So I think that was what actually affected it, that’s what made it actually open up as my pregnancy my scar was fine. It’s never opened up there’s no literally was no issues,

P: so uterine rupture after a Previous section is rare, but it happens in 1% of cases. Let’s hear what Dr. Wilcox has to say about it.

Dr. W: the risk with a vaginal birth after cesarean or sometimes we call it a vaginal trial of labor so if someone’s had a prior cesarean section. The incision on the uterus, where, during the C section where the baby is delivered through is repaired with suture and then heals over time, the concern and we know about 1% One in a 100 women undergoing a national child labor that that scar can break open the forces of labor and that that part of the uterus is a thinner part of that, muscular wall of the uterus. So that’s the danger, and why, they are they’re monitored very carefully. And fortunately, most of the time, the scar is okay but if there has been a rupture, whatever presenting part is down there, whether it’s the head the hands, the placenta is going to be coming through that, that bar and it can be it can be obviously very dangerous there can be cases where babies have died or and or and also that the uterus can get quite damaged because that, that scar can extend into the sides, it can tear into the sides of the uterus where the blood vessels are, and there are cases where certainly where women need to emergency hysterectomy, Just to control the bleeding. So while it’s a rare event, one in a 100 and the risk of a significant damage to baby is about one in 1000 it can be quite dramatic when it happens. So that’s, that’s why, you know, we’re always very careful with monitoring labor.

P: wow

Dr. W: Yeah,

P: and there’s no way to, obviously, even with ultrasound determine like the strain

on the recovered area

Dr. W: Yeah, they’ve done studies looking at that trying to measure the thickness of that area hasn’t that hasn’t provided useful information. Unfortunately, there certainly are women, you know, to be a candidate to be a safe candidate you have to have what’s called a low transverse incision on the uterus which is the typical type for a C section, but But yeah, in terms of being able to predict who might rupture of that 1% is, is challenging, and our most sensitive measure that that might be happening, is how the baby looks and that’s why there’s, you know, you have to have a dedicated anesthesiologist on the unit you because you need if you think that’s happening you move extremely fast.

P: That’s kind of a testament to how powerful contractions are

Dr. W: absolutely, yeah.

S: Yeah, so that’s how in two minutes, they delivered him, he was fine, according to my notes he didn’t brave straightaway so they had to actually take him to a a special unit

P: Yeah, like the NICU, or something.

S: Yes. Yeah, and child intensive care unit, and it was fine. I was fine as well. And, literally the next day we were discharged from the hospital because he had no issues, and well so there was no issues then you can go home.

P: were you vying to go home, did you want to go

S: I wanted to go home. Yes, I do want to another week in the hospital like I did in my first, honestly,

P: I want you to stay but okay, I’m really nervous.

S: Yeah, I went home the next day, I was discharged. Oh yeah, I missed a part, so I woke up and I found that I just saw a baby next to me, that oh my gosh I’ve had their baby. I was knocked out, it was an I think they said I’ve been sleeping for probably about six hours before I woke up to find a baby literally next to me on the beds.

P: Wow.

S: Yeah, it was quite it was quite an emotional experience basically for him.

P: No kidding, what, how big was he,

S: he was about three kg.

P: For those of us, actively avoiding the metric system three kgs is in the neighborhood of six and a half pounds.

S: Now, they were just a little bit smaller than my….he was 2.87 kg. And my first was 3.02 kgs so he was just a little bit smaller. Yeah, he is fine and is growing well you know eats very well his health be haven’t had to touch with any complications or any reasons to go to the hospital or anything like that.

P: Was your partner in the room with you when he was born,

S: because they I had to go into theater he couldn’t come in, and no one was allowed in the theater so I was on my own, until he was born, and he was able to come into the wards, not the theater room.

P: this sounds scary. Were you scared that he didn’t have time for that or.

S: Initially I wasn’t scared because I just felt like it was just another C section procedure. Yeah, I think it’s only when I got in there and they said to me, baby needs to come out and literally like right now. Sweat It really hit home that oh my gosh I hope he’s okay like my emotions were running, running through my head but I didn’t have enough time to even raise emotions because they gave me this, the general anaesthetic and I was literally knocked out. It wasn’t any plan to have a general anaesthetic.

P: Yeah, yeah

S: it was just you know I’ve had a digital we’re just going to get the baby out done. When this happened, they said, Oh, we have to give you this. I didn’t ask any questions so I’m just I just want the baby to be okay.

P: Well also like what do you what are you gonna say no, like,

S:  exactly.

P: You don’t really have much to stand on.

S: Yeah, exactly. I didn’t ask any questions. It was just we’re gonna give you this, and that was the that was the last conversation. I remember having I remember hearing in the theater room as well,

P: I brought this question about anesthesia to an anesthesiologist, Dr. Tammy Euliano who practices in Florida. Dr Euliano, if Stephanie already had an epidural Why did she also need general anesthesia for this surgery.

Dr. Euliano: So there’s two different things we do with epidurals one is what’s called analgesia, which is reducing your pain but not to a level where you could do surgery, and then anesthesia which is complete lack of sensation, and so usually we can convert an epidural for analgesia, which is just less drug really for anesthesia for surgery but it takes a few minutes, and in that case of a uterine rupture, you don’t have a few minutes at the time the baby’s going to be decelerating and there’s a risk that the rupture gets worse and possibly even includes a blood vessel of mom that could make her hemorrhage. So, when it’s a presumed uterine rupture the vast majority of them go to sleep.

S: yeah, It was, I was just grateful that you know he was healthy, he came out well, you know, he had no complications. But Just put me I just thought you know what am I ever gonna have like a normal pregnancy that people just get pregnant, their waters gush, you know, we have great give back. But, at this rate.

P: I mean, it sort of shows you that like for the, you know for every step of the way, there’s so many things that have to be coordinated to make the pregnancy work correctly and you know to get pregnant, a whole bunch of things have to happen at the same time and in the right order and in the right way. And that’s true during pregnancy and in the birth, because clearly you can have contractions, but like there’s some coordination issue with the cervix or whatever, like there’s so many things that have to be working in concert like I, every single person I talked to I think How is anybody born ever anywhere and walking around

S: exactly I’m like, when people told me their birth stories, you know, I just walked up the stairs next thing you know, baby was ready to come like, get my cervix to open up.

P: Yeah, yeah

S: my pregnancy was like so straightforward, all through the nine months so is that is the disconnect. Yeah, where does that come into it.

P: although The time for cervix to shine is often a birth. A lot is happening to the cervix over the length of the pregnancy as the lower part of the uterus, its function in pregnancy is to lend a mucousy helping hand to sperm wanting to enter the fallopian tubes. It acts as a barrier to pathogens between uterus and vagina during pregnancy and during most of those nine months, it must maintain a certain degree of firmness, but then has to soften at a hurry and open for birth. This opening part seems like it’s just happening during labor but preparations for that spotlight event, start early in the pregnancy. When certain hormones that help with softening or  in rich supply that remodeling process move slowly until the birth, at which point rapid changes have to happen cervix has to dilate from the size of a blueberry to the size of a bagel, the chemical cascade at birth includes hormones and immune cells entering at the right times in the right frequency in conjunction with contractions, which have their own chemistry, it’s complicated when you dig into the details, feels a little like magic.

Yeah, that’s one of the bummer of it right is that everything else has been so kind of according to plan.

S: Exactly

P: that it’s hard at the end. So if you could give advice to your younger self, what do you think you would tell her

S: I would still stick with it, read the stories just you know, the process, because that alone can get you over thinking so I’m so glad I didn’t do that, my younger self is, I think everyone’s pregnancy is different. That’s why, all my friends actually everyone’s pregnancy is different, like, is actually okay if you don’t have a normal pregnancy I think that’s actually normal not to have a normal you know fairytale, ideal I do see that you know where envision believe that everyone’s process is different just because this person was able to give back within 10 minutes, doesn’t mean that you are also going to be able to get back within 10 minutes, you know

P: yeah, that’s really smart, it’s hard not to compare but your main point is don’t compare because it’s exactly right.

S: Exactly, everyone’s story is different. And I think that’s why I say don’t read up too much as well because when you beat up you set yourself such a high expectation, that when you don’t meet that expectation you start worrying you start panicking and that’s where sometimes postpartum depression can creep in as well, and prenatal depression, because you just have this expectation unless there’s something…. being your baby and kick today and all of a sudden you feel like we were just going through it and that’s what worked for me and think we read Google is not offering we think is offering specific things is no offering.

P: No, I agree the comparison doesn’t help. That’s totally well Stephanie thanks so much for coming on and sharing your story, it’s super interesting story and I’m glad for people to hear it.

S: Thank you for having me. My pleasure.

P: So much to Dr. Wilcox and Dr Euliano for walking us through some of the medical issues that came up here. Thanks also so much to Stephanie for sharing her story, and thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, feel free to like and subscribe. And if you want to share your story, go to war stories room.com and sign up. We’ll be back soon with another episode that examines the challenges and revels of the triumph that comes with this complicated process of becoming a parent.