Episode 10 SN: Just When You Thought You Crossed the Finish Line, Colic: Clarissa

P: Hi, welcome to the show. Can you introduce yourself and tell us where you are?

Clarissa: Yes, Thank you for inviting me. My name is Clarissa. I’m from the UK. But I live in Madrid in Spain. And I’ve lived here for almost seven years now.

P: Oh, wow.

C:  Yeah, love it was supposed to be 18 months. My husband I love with it. And stayed.

P: So are you fluent in Spanish at this point?

C: No. embarrassingly awful at Spanish. When I first moved here I taught English I never, never practiced. And the more I didn’t practice, the more I get embarrassed about practicing. So it’s a vicious cycle of not practicing being by the Spanish. There’s a lot of Spanglish. So with my sort of Spanish and everyone else’s sort of English, yeah, I can get by again, another reason why I have not got fluent because I can survive with my intermediate level. Yes.

P: Excellent. How many kids you have?

C: just have one, one little boy who’s just turned one.

P: Oh, lovely.

C: Just  a couple of months ago.

P: Before you got pregnant with him, you must have had some ideas about what pregnancy would be like, what did you imagine that experience would be like?

C: I thought it would be very easy to become pregnant. And turned out it wasn’t. And yes, what I just thought, you know, in a couple of months I’ll be the pregnant everything will be fine and I’ll have a baby at the end of it. Because that’s what happens in the films and most of my friends thank goodness for them. And, and my mother as well, whose a very powerful and strong influence in my life. So yeah, that’s what I thought it would be.

P: And so when you started trying to do it, Was it easy? or What was your experience?

C: Well, The trying, the trying was fun, but after many, many months of many, many negative tests or you know, starting my cycle and disappointment it did become a little bit of a chore I think, a bit not soul destroying that’s too strong but every every month when there was another negative another No, it was hard to continue hard to keep going and keep motivated. And I think this is quite a common experience. I think it was almost coming up to a year of trying and I went to the doctor here to have a few tests to start the initial process of what is what is the process of not being able to conceive and what’s the next steps and the month after that I fell pregnant actually

P: Oh, wow

C: I think a friend of mine told me it happened to her I think when he started like again it’s not in my hands anymore I’m seeing a specialist things are gonna happen and then maybe your body relaxes and things as naturally as it did for me. I know, not always but it happened for us, which  was good.

P: Yeah, that is good. That’s nice to short circuit that trip down the fertility path which is you know, not not a not a fun

C: is not a fun I know that a couple of my friends have been through it and it’s not fun. It’s very testing and trying. So I’m very thankful that even though it took a year I’m thankful that it happened naturally in the end.

P: And what happened with the pregnancy?

C: and so that one very sadly, we lost that pregnancy as a as a as a missed miscarriage. I’d gone to my gynecologist, sort of just to meet her and start the process again, being British in in Spain. I wasn’t 100% Sure of how things worked here. And so I met my gynecologist quite early on in the pregnancy just to sort of find out the process. And she did a quick scan. And everything was fine. I mean, early, early early, but she said it look good. And booked me in for the next sort of proper, more official scan, in a few a few weeks time my husband came along to that was about nine weeks into the pregnancy, that scan. And that’s when she told me that there’s no heartbeat, nothing had grown, it was the same size as it had been previously. And we did to have her manage this carriage or something, I’ll come into how she described it, but had to go home and take some medication to remove the effects of pregnancy she phrased it as.. to it as remove the effects of pregnancy or something like that.

P: I feel like that strange wording is meant to be delicate, although it’s a little bit off putting right it’s weird not to kind of call it what it is.

C: I kind of I Yeah, probably it was supposed to be  a way to help me disassociate from it? I don’t know. But I found it really harsh. Actually, I found this process very difficult and quite hard on me. I didn’t know whether again It was difficult, or this particular doctor, but I found her very cold and very strange Matter of fact, and I’m someone who would need a little bit more comfort and being told it was a baby and all these things things. But yes, I found that quite difficult.

P: Yeah, I’m sorry, that sounds hard. I think that absence of suggesting there’s grief involved here is a weird way to handle it. I guess it’s more like medical than emotional or something like that. And that’s it

C:. Yes, it was very medical. Now, with with the benefit of hindsight, the benefit of distance. You know, I can see from her point of view, she would probably early miscarriages, I as we know are very common. Now. She probably sees them weekly, if not daily, it was the end of the day for her. It was the end of her shift. I don’t know what she had been put in it. But it was the some of the reasons that she might have been a bit cold. Still, I do feel like I was a bit of a number and Yes,

P: yeah, so that sounds like also surprising when you and your husband are going to the office for this exciting thing to have to have it sort of develope in that way. Right.

C: Yeah. Yeah. And it was, you know, it was his his first time any experience of any of any kind of that kind of office. And yeah, as I will know, his face will always stay in my memory. The memory of that is this kind of complete shock of what’s going on what’s happening as well, but he was amazingly supportive to me and his focus was definitely on right. Let’s keep clarissa happy, make sure she’s safe. Make sure she’s okay. He was wonderful. And I have to say in the end, again, I went home and took the medication that she gave me that day. Unfortunately, it didn’t work. Two weeks later, I went back to get another scan. And still she still does the same words of materails of pregnancy or remains of pregnancy or something that essence that is still there, so I had to have a DNC operation.

P: Clarissa mentioned a DNC which stands for dilation and coverage. It’s a surgical procedure. Once the cervix is dilated, so the uterine lining can be scraped with a spoon shaped instrument called the caret to remove abnormal tissues. It’s used to diagnose and treat certain uterine conditions, or to clear the uterine lining after a miscarriage.

C: And I have to say, Actually, she did that. And she did it. Her after care with that was wonderful. She quite nervous I had to go into the hospital, my own, my husband had to go to work. We just come to me up that after the operation, she came in for the aftercare talk and it was very caring, and about the grief that I will experience and to allow myself to feel this grief. And don’t let anyone tell me that just because it’s an early loss. It’s not a loss. And so she redeemed herself a lot after that aftercare, actually. I ended up with quite a positive feeling.

P: Good, good

C: It Took a strange way to get there.

P: Yeah, yeah….Well, I’m sorry to hear all that. That does sound hard.and the DNC is not pleasant. No matter what So I assume you took time after that to….

C: Yeah. Well, she, as part of the aftercare, she said wait until you’ve had one cycle before trying again. You’re right. I kind of because she said, Oh, you know, you’ll be in and out operation. They, you know, about the same day I went and didn’t think ever take anything calm. I feel fine. Yes. All right. It was quite um, it took my body a long time to get back to feeling okay and everything. And because of that, even though my cycle came, okay, my husband, I said, Let the beginning of a new year, it was January. Let’s give it some time. We’re not in a rush anymore. A bit of a cliche, but we we know we can get pregnant. So let’s just relax. We’re given a holiday, a family holiday, and we went skiing in January and didn’t think about it. Then I missed my second cycle, my second period. Take a test. And it’s very, very positive. So surprise, we were a bit shocked and not sure we’re ready. My husband especially I think he was particularly that I’m not sure I’m ready. This thing, but nature has it’s own way of doing things

P: That’s what the nine ones are for…It’s an acclimation period, right?

C: We used those fully. Yeah.

P: So how was this pregnancy?

C: And this pregnancy was great. I felt really, really well,  for the first few months, a little bit of sickness and a little bit of tiredness. But overall, I felt fantastic. I used to use them. Every time I went for a scan, every time I had an appointment, I changed doctors actually, in the end, just to be more local to my house, but also to not have the same feelings of being in that waiting room. And having sort of negative feelings about that negative feelings about that  waiting room. So I changed doctor and she was fantastic. I still get walking towards her office, I’d still get Oh, gosh, what is going to happen again? What’s going to happen again? And even every time every time I went to the bathroom, and is there going to be blood on the tissue? Is there going to be any I think every time you’ve had a loss, even if you feel very confident and happy.  it’s always in the back of your mind?

P: totally, I think one thing that’s kind of prominent about that experience is that it makes it clear that you have no control. Like this is a process going on in your body. And while it is internal to you, that’s about the limit of your control. So that you know you’re always nervous, right? Because it happened last time and you didn’t do anything to make it happen, right? You have no control either way.

C: Yes. Which is a great thing about living in Spain, actually, they they every pregnancy loss, they test, the test and to see maybe why, why it happened, which is actually really reassuring because it confirmed that nothing I did, that baby was never going to be viable. And there was my body’s way of telling me that So yeah, that’s a positive thing. But I wouldn’t have got that back at home in the UK. So that’s a positive thing about living in Spain. And again, a little bit more confidence with this one because there’s nothing I did and yeah, I didn’t let go and hope for the best. But yeah, this pregnancy was better I had that’s what I do. last few weeks of it. My husband and I went out a lot in the evenings take advantage of it just being us two the last few times. And yes, I sort of got that burst of energy towards the end, which is nice.

P: That sounds lovely and and how was the birth?

C: Long

P: So let’s walk slowly through this one. Tell us you know what happened that day that you started to have contractions or whatever it started for you?

C: Well, a few weeks before my doctor was a little bit worried about my blood pressure. It was a little I mean not extraordinarily high. It was a little bit high. So I had to go and check every day at the pharmacist pharmacy. Keep checking. So that was in the back of my mind a little bit of a worry. And she was talking about not letting me go over too much and things like that. I was due the 13th of October and it was my birthday on the eighth of October and I woke up on the eighth on my birthday with sort of a gentle water leaking I’m sure I think nothing dramatic like the films or like that, just all day until leaking of water and my I am a midwife. I have done a an antenatal course with my the speaking with her and she said you know don’t have any contractions or anything. Just keep the endorphins flowing, keep happy hormones going. I had planned to go out Milk with my birthday said yet keep doing that, you know no need to rush to hospital or anything like this. So we have a lovely evening celebrating my birthday on the way back from that we did pop in to the hospital just to check everything was okay. And they said they will it was the doctor duty on it was midnight, the doctor on call had said no, we don’t think this is waters breaking go home. I had a routine appointment the next day anyway, due to my blood pressure. Come back with that, which I did. I had a lovely night’s sleep and had my appointment in the morning. My weekly appointment to check my blood pressure. And it was it wasn’t quite a lot. And obviously I was to my doctor, I think my waters are going and I came in last night and they said no. And she did a quick scan. And then I think they are your there’s not much water around the a baby, your blood pressure’s high. I think it’s enough. I’d like you to stay in and start the induction. And one thing I have to say about my doctor here, I was told that is quite old fashioned compared to us, the US, UK and other doctors in charge and they don’t talk to you about things. And it’s never my natural birth and all this but my doctor was very considerate of me considerate of my opinions. We always talked about decision before we made it together. And so I felt very happy with her, and her  decision to suggest staying in. And yes, so that was Wednesday, the ninth. I started the induction process that day. And nothing really got going. It was just an

P: Does induction process mean Pitocin? Is that what that means?

C: Not at this stage. I don’t think It was just a pessary just to see if my cervix would open a little bit more.

P: What’s a pessary. It’s something used to help thin and soften the cervix getting it ready for labor. The pessary looks like a very small tampon that’s inserted into the vagina. It contains prostaglandins, which are hormone like substances that are released slowly over 24 hours in an effort to ripen your cervix.

C: And sort of start things a little bit without drugs and drips to stay in. But nothing Nothing happened. we stayed in hospital all afternoon like playing games and facetiming people and bouncing on my Pilates ball. But nothing got going so they took the pessary out three hours at about 7pm and told us to get another good night’s sleep and they will start the drip drip in the morning 7am. So that’s what happened. Had another very good night’s sleep. quite excited about we knew it as a boy. We knew he was going to be called Charlie. Getting quite excited about meeting him. And yes, seven o’clock in the morning. tHey started me on the drip things. Again, that felt quite slow it was. I sort of lost track of time. This point I think, remember at about midday. A lot of breathing through the pain, the pain was just getting really intense. And the midwives are coming in saying you wanted to wait for an epidural until you seven centimeters or six centimeters that isn’t a natural birth.the medication is making your contractions much more intense than it would be without them.

P: oxytocin is the hormone that helps encourage contractions during labor. pitocin, which is synthetic oxytocin can have similar effects. But in your body, oxytocin is released impulses both into the bloodstream and simultaneously into the brain for labouring women and the brain it positively affects mood and bonding behavior. Pitocin however, doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier. So if it’s being given to a woman in labor through an IV, it’s not creating the same emotional effects. And in part because it’s not being released impulses in the body. It can lead to contractions that are stronger and more frequent than naturally occurring contractions.

C: please, please have an epidural and you know I thought Yes, yes, please. Yes. So the other day I was rolled off that it was absolute bliss, feeling I have ever had in my life. Having this epidural, I think I managed to get a quite a couple of hours sleep in the afternoon as well with that going on. And unfortunately, of course it it does slow down the process the contractions were getting slower. Charlie was taking longer to come down into position. I think it was about five or six o’clock in the afternoon evening. My doctor came and said right we need to try to turn you on to your front to try and encourage him into the into a better birthing position. He’s not coming down the birth canal. She’s a very traditional Spanish lovely lady trying to make me laugh. But she’d seen this on an episode of Call the Midwife, which is a very UK, BBC drama but I wasn’t really in the mood for Jokes at that point. So I couldn’t, I’d sort of clicking the epidural and it’s been getting stronger and stronger, I couldn’t feel my legs, I had to turn on my front into like a downward dog position was impossible, my husband would have between doctors and my husband trying to turn me over to the downward dog position. And that unfortunately, as well picked out half of the epidural. So I could start feeling the left hand side of my body,

P: oh, no,

C: for the pain, which was, which was intense, intense pain. I don’t know what it was hours or minutes. But it had me doing a few practice pushes. Once I was back on my back, I think now that was my transition. Because I I remember having a bit of a breakdown, screaming, I can’t do this, I just cannot do this. And I’m so thankful that I gave birth before the pandemic, because my husband was there with me. And there was loads of doctors telling me I can do this, but the only person I believed was him. You know, he took me in the eye and told me I could do it. And he just completely calmed me down. We got through it. Again, Charlie was still not coming down anywhere close to the birth canal. Again, the full discussion with me as much as she could in my in my state of my left side and agony of things going on. But she did say we’d agreed as well that we’ll do everything we can do a vaginal birth. And that things are looking good and closer to having to do a C section. The baby’s still absolutely fine. His heart rate is good but it’s  getting I think this is coming into sort of 8pm 9pm at night. And so we’re going to take you to theater, maybe prep everything for a C section, but we will we will really try to get him out naturally. And that sort of sped me on as I’m having done all this work to then

P: yeah.

C:  But we got into the theater just in case James is outside having to put all the scrubs on and everything. I remember at this stage I was completely naked, I lost all kind of sense of propriety, or any kind of sense of this is not normal, but it was a student hospital. So a few student doctors, they’ve got some pediatrics in as well just in case Johnny hadn’t wasn’t doing very well. I know the doctors there for me and my niece the test and I just have my legs up on the stirrups, the very sort of old fashioned traditional way of giving birth stirrups and something to hold. And my poor husband sort of walked into the scene. Again, I just always I do manage to remember his face look strange in his face. He said I don’t want to look at the business end. But he walked in straight directly looking at it bless him. The doctor said if you try and push and if you can push with all your might we can we can get him out and we did it definitely was a team effort. My anesthetist was helping me breathe and my doctor was again talking to me through everything she said, I’m going to have to cut you if you’re going down we can use the forceps to get him out and my dream had been natural birth no forceps, no episiotomy, but at this point I was like Yes, yes, everything just get him out, get him out. And yet and he came out beautifully, wonderfully. Lucky I luckily the epidural was had failed on my left side, but not I couldn’t feel her cut me or I couldn’t feel anything like that, which the anesthetist was telling me That’s the most important thing. So that’s good. He had the he had the cord wrapped around a few times around his neck, which was the reason struggling to come down. But he was fine. They took him away It felt like three seconds later, in a way to make sure he’s breathing. But then he was on my chest. And he had done it. So it was strange experience.

P: That sounds like a triumph.

C: Yeah, in the end, it feels like a triumph. Because even though it was nothing as I’d imagined, I didn’t want any intervention or to be cut or to have as many doctors in the room as there were. But because I think I had such a good dialogue with my main doctor. And such a good relationship with her. And she always asked me before she did anything she asked me my profession and explained everything. I felt like it was a time when I feel very positive about it.

P: Good.

C: Yes. Yeah, that’s good.

P: And so how long do you stay in the hospital after that?

C: It’s typical for Spain to stay three days. Yeah. So we stayed, there was a tiny bit of worry because I’d lost quite a lot of blood during that. But in the end, I got to the test. I didn’t need anything to do at home for a few days. I remember being my first shower getting really dizzy. And they said that’s normal with the blood loss. Have a cold shower. Not a hot shower. But yes, three days quite, although we did sneak out a bit early because he was born so late. I think he’s born at 10pm at night. So he stayed that night, the next night, and we went home about 9pm the next next evening. But yeah, it was, I was so glad to get home, although also nerve wracking, because at the hospital, everything’s done. You know, they come early. Oh, maybe you should feel the baby. Now. Maybe you should do that maybe should change my, you know, brain kind of suggestions. But all right. Okay. That’s what I need to take further home. It’s just you.

P: Yeah, yeah. It’s nice to have adult supervision in the beginning for sure.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

P: And how was it when you got home?

C: Yes, it was often the nerve racking, where were the adults were in charge. Now. It was another bit of a haze of just feeding and I had no expectations of myself to breastfeed or not, I hadn’t really thought about it. But he and I just happened to, to click and bond and that way, and he found it quite easy. And I found it quite easy as well, he did have a tongue tie, which made it a bit sore. But we got that sorted quite quickly with my midwife here. So I just it was a haze of breastfeeding and changing. And then my parents came to visit which was lovely to visit, which again, I found helpful more than hindering, especially because because we live abroad there back in the UK, they can only visit for a short amount of time. They’re not here all the time. So it was a lovely bit of help. And then back to being just a three again, it was sort of I think about four weeks old, he started with a colic, which I found extremely testing, extremely testing

P:  that’s so hard, but it didn’t happen like every night at six or like, was it regular? Or

C: it was my regular, yes, he wasn’t, he was always quite a clingy baby. I remember, when my husband went back to work, he went back to work after six weeks. So pretty much at the start of the joy.

P: Yeah,

C: he would only be in the daytime, he’d only be happy in the carrier. So even in the house, I would do some housework or some gentle things, but he had been the carrier. Next to me my heart. Now I consider the time I find it extremely suffocating. But now learning more about the fourth trimester. And things I can understand a little bit more. He just wanted to be close to me. But at about 5:30-6pm that wouldn’t do it and nothing would do it. He would just be screaming, screaming screaming to about 10pm at night. So but and it was always a time my husband got back from work. So I’d had quite a nice day with him. Sleeping, feeding, watching TV and going for a little walk. And then just my husband most of the day after work, screaming would start.

P: I took some questions about colic to a pediatrician. Hi, welcome to the show. Can you introduce yourself and tell us about your training?

Dr. Chamberlain: Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. I’m Lisa Chamberlin. I’m a professor of pediatrics at the Stanford Department of Pediatrics and the School of Medicine here. And I work at the Stanford Children’s Hospital.

P: How long have you been a pediatrician?

Dr. Chamberlain: Oh, let’s see, forever 20 years.

P: Clarissa said it was you know, idyllic, she brought her new baby home. And then as soon as her husband’s paternity leave ran out, the crying started, let’s talk a little bit about colic how does a doctor define colic?

Dr. Chamberlain: Yeah. Great question. And I really feel for Clarissa it’s, it’s a hard thing to have to go through. So call it a few different definitions. But the one that a lot of us think of is crying, that is three hours or more a day, more than three times a week for infants less than three months old. So kind of the rules of three. If it’s less than three hours or less than three days a week or a child that’s over, you know, more like four or five months old, we would think less of colic. But if it meets those kind of rule of three criteria, and we think of it as colic,

P: do we know what the source of colic is why why babies develop it?

Dr. Chamberlain: We don’t know. So one of the first is a short answer, long answer. We have to make sure it’s not other things. So I need to make sure that there’s not any kind of neurological problems, rare things around the brain. Rare things with the heart there are Some heart conditions, and then things that have to do with the stomach places where like one of the valves, the pyloric valve is maybe a little tight that can cause stomach pain or more problems with formula or breast milk. So is there some sort of milk allergy? Is there some sort of intolerance to food? Because that can cause stomach pain, that last category that that intolerance to the food is the most common of those other things that I talked about? Once I’ve thought, you know what, I don’t think it’s any of these medical things. I really think what we’re talking about is colic, then we kind of go down that pathway. So what causes that? We’re not totally sure some people think that it has to do with a developing nervous system. And babies, I don’t know if it’s common to think about it this way. But some people talk about the fourth trimester, that those babies really maybe should stay in the womb until 12 months, but you know, blessedly on some levels, they come out at nine. So for the last three months, there’s a lot of neurological development. So it’s really kind of a normal developmental stage that they have to go through. And colic is just a manifestation of kind of a subset of kids who experienced that with more difficulty. So a normal process that on the bell shaped curve, they get too much stimulation and cry as a result.

C: So I think he found it quite hard to bond with him for that time. I did as well, I had, I had I heard about these initial when the first time you see his face, you’ll love him. 100% and I didn’t get that. I got a sense of I’ve always known him and I’ve he’s part of me, but I didn’t get that love feeling. So again, I think that was quite a testing time, especially for my husband. Only getting home and seeing him when he was a screaming angry ball of red flesh. But for me as well. We did we found that time very difficult as family.

P: yeah I think that’s pretty universal. It’s really stressful to have a baby You can’t calm down.

C: Yeah,

P: And with colic, you just can’t

C: and, and actually, because I the mum guilt goes but the mum guilt got to me that why can’t I calm him ? He’s my baby, I should I be able to do this. Why can’t I do this? Don’t I love him enough and all these things. Plus the hormones. Yes, healing from quite a traumatic birth. So many things. I have to say my husband was amazing, just so he would just sit on the Pilates ball all evening with him. I could see in his face the frustration and the sort of shock of this thing happening to us on my husband’s face. But the calmness he would have while he was holding the baby was amazing to me to see because I just didn’t feel I’m sure he didn’t fit inside. But he looked so calm. And he definitely radiated calm to the baby. Every time is my turn to have a go holding the baby I just felt guilt and sadness and absolute sort of horror with what was going on? It was Yes, it was a difficult time

P: Yeah, that sounds I mean, it’s hard kind of no matter what, but also, if you have the expectation that you’ll you know, you’ll be the one with the magic touch that will soothe him that it’s even harder.

P: So Clarissa talks about feeling like a bad mother, because she can’t see her baby, which I’m sure is not unusual. What What would you say to a patient who brought that to you?

Dr. Chamberlain: Yeah. So that’s actually one of the main things I was I was thinking about, and it’s this feeling what I hear a lot of people say it’s a feeling of helplessness.

P: Yeah.

Dr. Chamberlain And we’re not used to. And so I think for a lot of mothers, new mothers, you know, we’ve come with a sense of efficacy, and we can solve problems, know what to do. And, and this is a really helpless thing, and that you feel like, you know, you’re worried I’m doing something wrong. I’m not bonding with my baby, things like this. And so one of the first things I do, when I when I hear the story of colic is I reassure the family, and the mom, usually the mums, a primary caretaker, you know, you’re not doing anything wrong. This is a normal process, and you’re doing great and, you know, just to reassure them about that, and then try to give them some tools that can give them some options and some places to go. When they are feeling this range of emotions. And for some people, it’s frustration, some people anger, experiencing frustration and anger is normal. You’re not a bad person. If you feel that caring a creature that you love, so much cry in this way for so long. is really hard. so just really wanting to reassure people, and then also the exhaustion. This is all happening at a time when people are physically exhausted, they’ve given birth they are nursing, and they’re not sleeping through the night. So it’s really kind of a perfect storm to feel bad about yourself and feel about about your parenting. So we just tried to reassure people that, you know, you take it day by day, they will outgrow this, this ends, I promise it will end. And so what are some tools we can convey to help them bridge to the other side of this? Which, which will happen? They will get through it?

P: And are the tools like walk around and try to shut down simulation? What can you do?

Dr. Chamberlain: That’s a great question. So there’s a book, it’s an older book, but it describes the five S’s and it’s the happiest baby on the block book. And, and I disclosure, no, no conflict of interest. I don’t know the author, I get nothing for this. But it’s a very simple book, and it conveys kind of the five S’s. So the five things you can do that basically recapitulate the environment of the womb, the first one is swaddling. swaddling is the way that you can have the burrito Baby, you wrap the baby super tight in a blanket. And so that, that hold that that puts the child in very tightly again, like womb, like, right, like it’s all tucked in. And, and, and really snuggled it in and the second one is a side or stomach position. So again, in the womb, that baby’s in these different positions, and they’re out and we just hold them up all the time. So it’s side position, stomach position, using some sounds, that shushing sounds. So that’s kind of mimicking the heart tones that they would hear in the womb, sh-sh-sh that this sort of thing. So that constant sound, and there are people talking about using hairdryers using these white noise machines. So other things that can create that noise, doing some small swinging or jiggling is something else that you can do that helps to soothe the baby and then suck. So the last S is a pacifier or a thumb, something that the baby can suck on. So with these five S’s, these are the different things parents can try. And it’s kind of a trial and error thing, find the one that works for your baby. But people describe it like a switch, like when they, you know, it’s a combination of a couple of them, or maybe three of the five for your baby. And that this this kind of combination seems to flip a switch and the child then calms down. So those are some things that have really no cost, no side effects, easy to try, and are have been found by many parents to be very helpful.

C: You don’t you don’t care. You will do you, you know, you throw money at you. Yeah. living through it. You will do anything. Anything? Yes.

P: So what happens when colic  eventually goes away? And do you know, Is it some kind of physiologic? Do we know what that is?

C: every time that I had my moment I would spend on the internet googling. And I never found an answer. We did used to feel in the evenings when it got peak screaming like you could feel the gas bubble in his tummy. And I mean, I spent a lot of time learning to massage and the leg thing just

P:  yeah,

C: ease and gases. But in reality, it’s just waiting, I think waiting for his digestive system to develop a bit better. And online is no three months, three months, the magic age and we got to three months. And it wasn’t the magic age. And my mother in law  and so I said no, no, it’s four months, four months is really the time and I reached that and things did start to really improve after four months. Plus that three months then there’s a lady in Madrid is quite well known with all the expat mothers about she’s a sleep. Sleep consultancy, gentle sleep consultants and I went to one of her to open evenings. And Charlie was just about three months and it was and again, sleep cycles of up to three months. There’s nothing you can do with a baby’s sleep I don’t know when they just want to be next to you all the time. But for three months, you can start implementing a routine and I did I got him that night, implemented the routine for him in in our bedroom, we used to let him sleep on the sofa all night until we went to bed but know his bedtime. He’s going into his bed with the monitor on and that was also a game changer. For us. I think he was relieved to have a routine at bedtime. We were relieved. And then at four months, it all started slotting in together a little bit better. his tummy got better his colic  was improving. We have the bedtime routine down. He was going on he was going on. Yeah things definitely.

P: That sounds awesome and what what uh what are his tricks at one? What is he into?

C: ah, he is. If he will eating. He will eat everything. Which means he’s become very good at. Like the fine details fine is is fine motor skills is fantastic. And he’s talking skills, also. Very good. He’s just started nursery, full time. Slowly he was part time status early but he’s now been at nursery full time. A couple of months. And he’s just started to, in the middle of life now isn’t such a good sleeper. I can’t criticize on the time but every single day we wake up about the morning just for chat. He didn’t need me, doesn’t want me to go in, he gets a bit annoyed if I go in, actually, but just have a little 20 minute chat. And then they go to sleep. And nursery they say the same. He wakes up from the siesta just to have a litte chat, and they like Charlie your friends and sleeping. Those chatty is not walking yet he’s focusing on the chatting in the eating.

P: You know, we have two kids and the first one walked at 17 months. And she like Charlie, like talks kind of early and so she could order us around. She could say, Go, Go get me that thing; why would I have to get over there  I have you

C: Yes, absolutely. That is exactly what he does. And because he’s my current only my best I, I would do anything for him so of course, yeah he tells me what he wants. I do it. Is it the trick. Right.

P: I think if you have a personal assistant, you don’t need to get there.

C: No, of course. Yeah, so making sense now. Right.

P: I hope you’re taping some of these conversations.

C: Oh, oh no, I’m not as your mind I remember taping a few nights of breastfeeding actually to have that kind of little snuffly  sound that they make when they breastfeed, which I’m so glad I did because he sort of stopped weaned himself, quite early on really so I’m glad I’ve got that but yes, that’s a good idea. I will do some taping, especially for the granparents.

P: Well I was gonna say need it for the wedding.

C: Yes. Definitely. Little cherub face with his chatting. Yeah,

P: if you could go back and give advice to your younger self. What do you think you would tell her?

C: I’ve been thinking about this recently. It’s  come up on a radio station I listen to here, and without a doubt it would be let go of your expectations. I definitely had high not high expectations. I just thought that I would love every minute of it. I thought it would be natural and I, when my baby cried I know exactly what he wanted because I’m his mother. And, yes, and then, the most important thing is that you don’t have to love every minute of it it’s okay to say, this is boring or This is hard.

P: Yeah,

C: or it’s not enjoyable.

P: Yeah.

C: And I think that’s positive because it makes the fun and the enjoyable. The lovely bits, even more special because there are so many lovely bits and enjoyable it’s and love them so much. And that is even more special to you if you acknowledge that. Some days are hard. Some days are boring, and I do miss my pre-Charlie life and I think that’s okay as well. I wouldn’t change anything I love my life I love having Charlie in my life but I have to accept that I, I’m not 25 I can’t go out to the clubs till 6am. I don’t want to.

P: Yeah,

C: but I’m also allowed to miss that I used to, I think, yeah,

would tell my younger self. Enjoy. I did enjoy my late 20s, that enjoying the 20s, and don’t have such high expectations of motherhood. It’s wonderful. And it’s not everything that I am. I’m also I’m still meet. Yeah,

P: that sounds wise lucky Charlie.

C: Hopefully, lucky charlie.

P: Yeah. Well thank you so much for talking to us today and for sharing your story.

C: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me it’s, it’s very important. Again, Wish I had listened to more stories when I was pregnant or when I was trying to get pregnant and it might have helped me realize, and not to be so scared about my emotions and my guilt, and the first few months, if I had listened to my story that so thank you for doing it.

P: Sure, absolutely. Thanks again to dr Chamberlain for the great advice about colic. And thanks to Clarissa for sharing her story. A link to the book dr Chamberlain suggested in the notes. If you like this episode, feel free to like and subscribe if you’d like to be a guest on the show, go over to the war stories website and sign up. We’ll be back soon with another episode of overcoming.