Episode 73: A Birth Visited by Too Many Medical Interventions: Nicole’s Story, Part I
Episode 73SN: A Birth Visited by Too Many Medical Interventions: Nicole’s story, Part I
Today’s guest walked into pregnancy with an expectation that the process would be as smooth for her as it had been for her mother, as it was for the farm animals she’d been surrounded by for her whole life, as it was from 50,000 feet: civilization depends on this process and women’s bodies were made for this project. Although the pregnancy part was relatively straightforward, the ways in which her first birth unfolded deviated profoundly from her expectation. In this first part of our conversation we’ll hear how she processed that first experience, and how she used what she learned in this experience to alter the births that followed.
Relationship between Pain Medication & Fever
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7976662/
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/504805
Audio Transcript
Paulette: Hi Welcome to War Stories from the Womb. I’m your host Paulette Kamenecka. I’m a writer and an economist and the mother of two girls
Today’s guest walked into pregnancy with an expectation that the process would be as smooth for her as it had been for her mother, as it was for the farm animals she’d been surrounded by for her whole life, as it was from 50,000 feet: civilization depends on this process and women’s bodies were made for this project. Although the pregnancy part was relatively straightforward, the ways in which her first birth unfolded deviated profoundly from her expectation. In this first part of our conversation we’ll hear how she processed that first experience, and how she used what she learned in this experience to alter the births that followed.
Let’s get to her inspiring story
P: Hi, thanks so much for coming on the show. Can you tell us your name and where you’re from?
Nicole: Sure. My name is Nicole. I hail from the Midwest, Indiana. I’m halfway between Chicago and Indianapolis.
P: Okay, so let’s talk pregnancy. You have three kids?
N: Three. Yep, that’s right.
P: And what’s the one of the ages?
N: three alive? I’ve three alive. Yep. So my kids are 420
P: Wow, nice. That’s well spaced. Well done.
N: I couldn’t have done it better if I planned it.
P: Yeah. Yeah, totally. I agree. So before you got pregnant, what did you think pregnancy would be like? What were you imagining?
N: Uh, well, uh, so it all kind of happened kind of fast for me. My husband and I have been married now I think for seven years but we have been together for about 20 years.
And yeah, you know, when we were kids, we knew we knew we were gonna have kids, when we were kids, and that was something we always talked about when we grow up when we get married when we have kids. So we always had this, like far off distant idea. of in the future we will have children, but being unmarried teenagers, you know, we’re like avoiding that like the plague.
P: yeah
N: We don’t want to be pregnant. We don’t you know, we don’t want that. You all have that. So we got married, and month and a half later, we were pregnant. It wasn’t quite the honeymoon baby. But we didn’t plan that we weren’t trying it wasn’t intended was not intended, but we were very surprised by it. And so my experience with it was going practically my whole life avoiding pregnancy.
P: Yeah,
N: to now being pregnant and it being socially acceptable, where like, so I didn’t have that time for my mind to shift from avoiding it to desiring it. So that was what what really struck me about my first pregnancy easy Yeah, that emotional trip into dealing with what what was happening?
P: Well, good to good you know, struggle with the front end. Did you find out with like a home kid or how did you how did you find out you’re pregnant?
N: I had an inkling who and I took a test and it was positive. And I, at that time, didn’t think you know, anything could happen. If the home pregnancy test says it’s positive than it’s positive and we just went with it. You know, we, you know, immediately called the doctor because that’s what you do when you’re pregnant, right? You go to the doctor, so we call the doctor we make the appointment we waited the traditional three months to tell everybody you know, in case something bad happened. We did all of those things like the way the cultural norm is so we went we went through all of that and that was all I mean, it’s still like deer in the headlights. You know, I just went from avoiding this to now everybody’s excited about it.
P: That’s kind of amazing. I wonder where the three month rule. I feel like my doctor told me that although I did not follow it at all and had a miscarriage and just had to tell everyone but I think it’s I think it’s from I think my doctor said you might want to wait, but I can’t remember where it comes from. Anyway,
N: I think that’s an old rule when I don’t know when doctors first started playing a big important role in pregnancy and they just advised you know, you want to save face. If you do have a miscarriage. You don’t want to have to go around telling everybody your business that you had a miscarriage and, you know, we thought we thought that that must be important. So that’s what we did.
P: Yeah, yeah. So it was the first trimester easy.
N: The whole pregnancy was pretty easy. Really. I didn’t have a lot of morning sickness. I craved pickles. I was working in a factory at the time. I was on my feet a lot time and that was the big joke like crazy pregnant lady drinking pickle juice. And I did I am but I had heartburn in my third trimester and that was really the hardest thing. You know, everybody has the discomfort and the tiredness and that part of it. But looking back on it, it was pretty easy. I know though that there were days when I was like, Oh my gosh, I can’t do this anymore. Like in the moment you deal with that, but But when it’s not extreme, and there’s not medical conditions and things like that, you just say Oh, this must be what everybody does. This is
P: we just sort of accept it because it’s because how else is it gonna go right? That’s what you’re told. Yeah. So take us to the day of the birth. How do we know today’s today? And then let’s walk slowly through that day.
N: Yeah, sure. So. So looking back on everything that happened where my expectations didn’t really match up to what was happening was like with the birth part of it, and, and that was where, like, the experience just hit me like a Mack truck. So I grew up on a farm. You know, I assumed pigs and cows and horses. You know everything goats, sheep, I’ve seen everything be born. I know like, I knew when I was a kid like population how that happens. So I’ve always known this and I’ve been around forever. And when I got pregnant, my mom’s advice to me was, you know how this works. Don’t read the literature that they give you. It will scare you to death. You know how birth works. You’ve seen it done. Trust your body and it will happen. And my mom, in my mind was a warrior. She had four kids and the first three were born in a hospital completely naturally. The fourth one was a C section. You know, and there’s, you know, the story around you know, how the baby wouldn’t come down to the birth canal and that’s just how it was and whatever. But, you know, I had this wonderful example in my life of how birth was supposed to work. So I thought, okay, I don’t need to read anything. I don’t need to prepare my body knows what to do. I’ve seen it done. It’s going to happen. So I didn’t read anything, not What to Expect When You’re Expecting I didn’t watch videos. I didn’t blogs, nothing.
And my husband says he knew that I was going to go into labor because I came home and I was like, our yard is a mess. I hate it. We’re going to clean it. All up like the baby is coming. I don’t want to have to come home and deal with a messy yard. We’re going to mow it and we’re going to weed it and we’re going to pull all the shrubs out of the flower bed. And you know, I just had all this energy and he said, you know, he reminds me of sitting on the couch after doing all of that work. I was just sitting there saying, I don’t know why everybody says pregnancy is so tiring. And I don’t know why the third trimester is supposed to be so bad because I just have all this energy and I feel so great. He’s like, uh huh, he knew what was coming.
So that night after doing all of this yard work and just feeling so amazing. I got up to go pee at midnight. And as I was sitting on the toilet, I heard like an audible pop.
P: Oh wow
N: That is a gush of water. You know like the things that doesn’t happen to everybody but that’s what it was. And it was read amniotic fluid and I like immediately just began shaking with fear like head to toe overcome with fear, like my whole body to the core was shaking. So I had to wait for this session to stop I had to go wake my husband up in the middle of the night. I have to say you know it’s time we have to no it didn’t take long once he heard me say it’s time like he was immediately awake and alert and up and out of bed and I had a bag packed and you know I am prepared that much at least we did not have a car seat. It was not in our car, but we’re like that’s the least of our worries. We’ll figure it out later. So we grab our bag and we go to the hospital and I didn’t think you know amniotic fluid was gonna leak I had no idea so I just put on jeans and you know I’m still leaking in the car. we didn’t have a trash bag. I made a mess of the car. I walked into the emergency room entrance of the hospital just like water still pouring down my legs and my husband got me a wheelchair and the people are like looking at me like what are you doing here? And I’m like, my water broke and they were like, oh, and then it became an emergency to get me checked in a wheelchair and to the labor and delivery. And so, all of this time though I’m still shaking with fear. We get to labor and delivery and we have this whole big rig mo row. Are you really in labor? Are you feeling contractions? Is this really your water breaking? And, you know, then the they had to do an amniotic test where they had to like swab me to determine that the fluid that was coming out really buzzed amniotic fluid. When it came back positive then they decided that I must really be in labor and I will be allowed to stay because they were so busy that night.
P: That is like a little circus environment there. Although I think most people don’t experience the kind of dramatic and obvious water breaking that you did. So So I think some people are really unsure themselves like oh my Warbreaker broke or not although it seems like yours is pretty clear.
N: absolutely it was
P: And so at this point you’re not feeling contractions are you are
N: i i probably had some pain in my back but I wasn’t feeling like miserable countable contractions I just my water had broken, but I’m also still shivering with fear. And, you know, in the birth that I’ve had since then, when looking back at that situation, I know that that fear response in my body was stopping any contractions that would have happened with that. So like this fear, this flight response that I was having definitely shut down. Anything that was happening.
P: Yeah, there’s a lot of chemistry involved in that in that response. Right. So you can imagine it is telling your body like not now.
N: Oh, well yeah, I mean, an animal’s in labor and there’s an ear Okay. Body says don’t be born because you’ll be taking your days and that’s, that’s what my body was going through. Because even though I like mentally knew that my body was capable of giving birth, I didn’t believe in my body like in my subconscious mind, you know, like, my body was fat and ugly. I hated it. I was constantly putting it on diets and berating it and saying, you know, I hate you all of these cultural stories that we have about women’s bodies. And and that was what was putting me into this fear like this mental juxtaposition of I know I can do this as opposed to the true like deep down beliefs that I have that my body was a piece of garbage like a piece of garbage can’t do something amazing. And and that’s that what, what, threw my first birth off the rails for sure.
P: Yeah, that sounds like a really hard thing to work through in the moment. And did you have
N: I was not aware of it in the moment. took several years afterwards to come to that.
P: Well, you probably knew you were fearful. Right?
N: Yeah, I definitely knew I was afraid and that but you know, I just thought, you know, my, I’m afraid but my body’s gonna do it. And when it happens, I’ll just go along with it. Yeah, okay.
P: And so, since you’re waiting for and stopping contractions at the same time, how does that progress?
N: Yeah, it doesn’t.
It doesn’t progress at all. So after it was about six hours, they have me hooked up to machines and they were measuring my contractions and I was kind of sleeping off and on but I wasn’t feeling the pain and I felt poorly, but I wasn’t feeling regular measurable contractions. So they
Come in and they hook up an idea that kind of, I think it was they started hanging Pitocin at that time. And looking back on it. I see you know, the audacity that they had to come in and talk to my husband about this. They didn’t talk to me about any of it. I didn’t give my consent. Obviously, I wasn’t going to disagree with them at that time. But it was not me giving consent.
P: why aren’t they talking to you?
N: I was tired. I was sleepy and he was awake. So rather than, you know, trying to rouse me and have a conversation with me, they just went right to my husband and talked with him. Because like yep, if that’s what we need to do, then that’s what we need to do. And over the next six hours, they have three bags of Pitocin
P; oh Wow.
N: Which was causing back labor. So by noon, 12 hours after I had been admitted. To the hospital by noon, I was ready for pain medication.
P: Yeah, no kidding
N: They hung up a pain medication. And still they were measuring contractions and saying you know, we see you’re having contractions, you’re in labor. They were checking my dilation constantly which you know, that’s a whole another story of invasion of self being uncomfortable and just adding to those to those hormones that are slowing down labor. But so yeah, by noon then 12 hours later, I was on Pitocin and pain meds
P: man, this is this is hard.
N: So what not what I expected when I went to the hospital, that’s for sure.
P: Did you think it would be fast like what what was the image in your mind? Yeah,
N: so So in my mind, I thought you know, this is gonna be quick and easy. I’m just gonna lay there and my body will take over and do what it’s supposed to do. And eventually a baby will pop out. And I will have this baby in my arms. And that’s, that’s all the thought. That’s all the space. I allowed this event to have in my mind.
P: Yeah, that makes sense. I think people are fuzzy in describing birth, right? They kind of walk fast by that part. And I think it’s hard to find the right vocabulary to make you viscerally appreciate the pain
N: for the first two births. For me that was true by my third birth that wasn’t so true anymore.
P:Interesting. Well, I’m interested to hear how we get there.
N: Yeah.
P: So how do we progress like how do we
N: Yeah, so noon, they start giving me pain medication and then from noon to six, my temperature starts to increase which they attributed to possible infection because my water has broke and that’s the risk of having your why you have to go to the hospital when your water breaks, is because of that risk of infection.
They don’t talk about how the pain medication that they were hanging, for me causes your body temperature to rise.
P: Okay, so Nicole mentions of the pain medications in labor may have caused her fever. So this turns out is not entirely straightforward. Like many things about birth. There are some studies that suggest that an epidural can be associated with a non infectious rise in temperature, but there are many other factors that can contribute to fever, including things like a long duration of labor, and a long time separating ruptured membranes from delivery. I put some links in the show notes on this topic. If you’re interested in the details.
N: so my temperature is rising possible infections still not feeling contractions, six o’clock comes and the on call doctor for the evening comes on to the ward and there’s lots of other women in birth the whole word of school they have women in other rooms of the hospital who are in labor, but can’t come into this labor and delivery and it’s a pretty small rural hospital, really, it was a private kind of thing. It wasn’t part of a huge network. So it’s not a huge fancy place. So the hospital is dealing with their own constraints besides me. Taking up this room, progressing really slowly. Around 6pm They say you know your fever is starting to go up. We need to start doing fetal heart monitoring to make sure that the baby is safe while your body temperature is increasing. You know, we went to to walk we want you to do things to try and move things along. Because if you don’t, and that’s what they started telling me around six o’clock that evening, so 18 hours after I got to the hospital. If you don’t, then we will do a C section. So that kind of also starts weighing on my mind like oh my god, am I not capable of giving birth? Am I going to have to have a C section?
So you know, I’ve got all of that going on. I do the walking they give me more pain meds, they increase I think probably the day to start working on the contractions and around nine o’clock. I went ahead and took the epidural, the first epidural
P: Oh wow,
N: labor doesn’t progress. nothing’s really happening. Around 11 o’clock. They come in and say you’re going to push I think they weren’t declaring me to be around nine centimeters dilated, but by the measurements of the contractions I was having something should have been happening. They criticize the way I’m pushing and say you’re not doing it right. This is how you do it and 11 o’clock goes by and they keep making me push and I’m pushing according to readings on a machine. Not according to my body. Like I’m so out of my mind. I don’t really even know what’s going on. Like I’m I’m desperately afraid of what’s happening right now. And it came to like 1130 and the nurse went and got the doctor and said, You know she’s pushed, nothing’s happening. They decided your body temperature is too high. At 1130. They decided you’re going to have a C section so they started prepping that they started checking my epidural. I could feel where they were poking and all the tests that they were doing so I had another epidural and the anesthesiologist that came in and did it. He had to come in from home wherever he was at to do it. And he just said I’m going to give you two to make sure that you get through the next however long it’s going to take you because again the hospital has a lot of other constraints they were dealing with. He wanted to make sure he didn’t have to do it again right before they did the operation.
It was between 1130 and 1145 or so they do the extra epidurals they have my husband and they put him in you know the full HEPA suit with his beard cover and all of that and
P: wait How are you feeling? Are you are you upset or where are you?
N: I’m drugged out of my mind at this point. I’m still shivering with fear but I just like so out of my body that I I’m I’m not capable of giving consent. I’m not capable of not giving consent.
P: Yeah,
N: I’m just I’m just going along with it. I’m desperately afraid of what’s happening. I’m in fear. I’m disappointed because, you know, I never thought that I would need the epidural. I never thought I would need the pain meds and I’ve taken all of that and now they’re telling me that my baby is in danger. Heart rate might be low that my body temperature is increasing, who’s going to be born with an infection? Just fear.
P: Okay, so this is the issue of fever if the epidural is a catalyst for a fever, but it’s a non infectious source, then we’re not worried that the baby will be born with an infection. Some theories suggest that the epidural along with other factors may induce an inflammatory response in the mother’s body. If this is the case, then it’s not likely that something is transmitted. To the baby and the baby doesn’t need antibiotics. So although we don’t have a definitive answer yet to this, this is an, important focus of study.
N: Yeah, everything was here. Everything was saved my life saved my babies life
P: yeah,
N: and they went we went into labor and delivery and the C section was fine and maybe boy was born. And they put me in a room and my in laws. Got to see my baby before I did.
P: Wow.
N: Yeah, yeah. And looking back that was one of the thing that was hardest for me, especially, you know, in the postpartum recovery was they put me up in the surgery board. They did the surgery. I saw that like they helped the baby’s butt up like you have a boy here he is. And they cleaned him up and took him away. And then they took me to a room to get cleaned up. And I don’t even know what happened what they were doing. You know what happened while they were cleaning me up but they gave me a picture. A photograph of this naked squirmy little thing that had salve in its eyes, you know had on its head and like, that’s how I got a picture. And, and that was like, again, like so surreal. So out of body. There’s not nobody nothing in my arms. My belly is soft and squishy. And I don’t have a baby. And, you know, we had we had called people before I went into surgery just because you know, again, kind of like the three months rule with announcing your pregnancy. It’s you call people because what if something happens while you’re in surgery? Which again shows how fearful we were?
P: yeah
N: what if someone dies with this C section. So my in laws were at the hospital. My mom had come to the hospital and my husband followed the nurses with the baby to see them wash baby after he was born. And he has very fond memories of walking into the room and talking and, and my son like instantly looking for him recognizing His voice. So
P: yeah, so that’s cool
N: has fond memories. Yeah. But it was I don’t know, maybe an hour before I got to even see him. And then like, just the surreal moment of is this little thing. This score me a little baby my and having them that first hold your baby.
P: It feels like you’ve been put through a very weird version of a birth in which you’re present but not entirely and they’re like not treating you like your president at any point. Right? It’s wacky to criticize you’re pushing Oh, you mean from the 1000s of times. I’ve done it before and you know,
N: absolutely
P: the consent thing is weird and shuffling too often. You have the baby off to different rooms, like Okay, we’re done with her. Let’s just that’s just weird.
N: Yeah. And you know, at the time, I don’t have the presence of mind or the perspective that I gained over the next few years to know to say something’s wrong with this. Yeah, yeah. You can’t say what you don’t know. And I absolutely did not know in that moment.
P: But it sounds like it fell off. You have nothing to compare it to.
N: Right. But it just has nothing to compare it to. Yeah, yeah. So you know, then I have the whole hospital stay and you know, people come to see the baby. And I was I was really dedicated to breastfeeding and that didn’t really work well, and baby was kind of grumpy. And it turned out that he had high bilirubin so he was orange and they wanted him to lay under this light. So not only do I have like the surreal meeting of my son, but now they say don’t hold him put him under this light. You know, don’t interact with him except to feed him you know in the hole coming in all the time to check your temperature so you never really get any sleep and just all of the things just was not a great bonding time.
P: Yeah,
N: my mom came to stay with me which really felt good, which was really good. Besides that, just the birth experience of not being considered an active participant in the birth to a person to whom it was happening, that they had to deal with in the process.
P: Yeah, all that sounds really hard to manage emotionally. And certainly your experience didn’t match your expectation at all. What’s postpartum like?
N: My dad came to stay with me after the birth, which was an incredibly generous gesture on behalf of my dad. But in hindsight, and even in the moment, like it was so awkward, like my parents were splitting up in the moment. My dad was like, one upping my mom by being able to be the one who was there. With me. He is not really a baby or a kid person. He was trying to like treat me like his kid. And at the same time, allow me space to be a mom. It was really uncomfortable. So I have these five days, you know where my husband is gone. He had to go back to work and I have to deal with this and driving back and forth to the doctor and baby not nursing and nobody. I had zero support of people saying yes you can rescue they were all saying Oh, baby’s not latching right give him formula. Like no person said, Oh, he’s not laughing. Let me help you.
P: Yeah.
N: And it was only my stubborn persistence that did that but he finally latched on to finally nurse and I finally did that and when that got easier, then I get this you know, whole emotional wave of you know how did that happen? And I think it was probably after my second child was born. But I look back on that time now and I say that that was trauma in my day.
P: Yup, yup
N: I knew that it wasn’t right that what happened wasn’t right and after baby was born, the next morning the surgeon had come in and you know, I expressed to him my disappointment in what had happened. And I said, is it going to be possible for me to have a vaginal birth in my next pregnancy? You know, I’m already planning my next one and I just got the first one in my arm. And he says, no, no, no, V backs are dangerous. You know, in the 90s. We pushed everybody to do it. It was this big thing and we damaged a lot of women, we damaged women in the V back process and we don’t do that anymore. So if you ever see sex and you always have a C section, and besides, your hips are too small, you’re really too small of a person to be giving birth anyway. And that was just that was his answer. And it kind of was weird in the moment when he said that because my mom might know again, my example in birth is smaller than me. And she had these three babies naturally and and she was fine. So how was that the case? And it was about 18 months. I finally am starting to heal. I say, you know, that was a really sucky experience. I never want to have that again. I know I’m going to have kids in the future. And I’m never doing that again. And you know, I start reading things on the internet. I start watching YouTube videos, and around the time that I’m thinking about all of this, we got pregnant again. Like we weren’t trying it. We weren’t not trying but it just happened. And it was good timing and it was right. And so I’m pregnant now. And I’m thinking about all of this, and that freaking doctor was absolutely wrong. I am capable of giving birth and I’m gonna prove it to him.
P: Thanks again to Nicole for sharing her experience. With this first birth.
Her experience of the hospital has a steep learning curve that she uses in future births her attempt to get the birth she was hoping for.
Thanks again. Thanks again to Nicole for sharing her story. Her experience in the hospital has steep learning curve that she uses in future births and her attempt to get the birth she was hoping for. Unlike many women who go into birth with a fully formed birth plan, it calls hoping to avoid another experience. She feels like a disposable contributor to the whole event.
Episode 72: Becoming a Mother without my Mother: Melissa’s story, Part II
Episode 72SN: Becoming a Mother without my Mother: Melissa’s story, Part II
Today we pick up the second half of Melissa’s story. At the end of last week’s episode Melissa was on bedrest, she has to leave her job and be home with a four year old and a husband who worked full time, in a town in which she didn’t have a strong support network because she’d moved there relatively recently. To remind us where she was emotionally, I’m going to share an excerpt from Melissa’s writing–this is a sneak preview of her book…in this excerpt she is describing the experience of being told about the prospect of a too early birth…she writes:
I was in pre-term labor. The office was located within the Women and Babies Hospital, and so they took me down on a gurney to the hospital Emergency Room and started the admission process. My time in the ER was a blur. I have very little memory of that time as I was in shock. I changed into a hospital gown, and my husband called his ex-wife to come to pick up Tommy.
IVs were inserted, and countless nurses and aids were getting me situated and asking what felt like a million questions. I was in a daze. At one point, they informed me that they needed to begin administering a series of steroid shots to give the baby’s lungs a boost in case I delivered that night. My OB entered the room and told me what the plan was. I would remain in the hospital while I received a series of shots that included steroids and several other medications designed to stop the labor. She told me that the treatment would feel pretty awful, but we needed to stop the labor because the survival rate at 26 weeks was only 50%.
How was this happening? I was still in the second trimester, for goodness’ sake. What did I do to deserve so much loss in my life? Once again, I felt like my life was falling apart, and I didn’t have my mom. I prayed my little heart out. And every few hours, I gave thanks that I was still pregnant and the baby was still alive and growing.
The hours crept by, and another shot was administered. Hours turned into days, and my pregnancy continued. It was at this point in the hospital when the shock and terror of it all began to abate, that all of the other factors I needed to deal with came crashing down. It was at this moment that I began to feel the full impact of becoming a mom without having the assistance of my own mom.
To find Melissa’s sites:
Website: https://www.momswithoutamom.com/
https://www.instagram.com/momswithoutamom/
https://www.facebook.com/Dr.MelissaReilly
https://www.tiktok.com/@momswithoutamom
Enjoy Being a Mom Again Quick Guide: https://www.momswithoutamom.com/enjoy-motherhood-again-guide
Care For Yourself While You Care For Your Baby Guide: https://melissareillypsyd.lpages.co/bonding-with-baby-while-caring-for-yourself-opt-in
Schedule a complimentary coaching call: https://MelissaReillyPsyD-MomsWithoutAMom.as.me/free-coaching-call
Audio Transcript
Paulette Kamenecka: Welcome to war stories from the womb. I’m your host, Paulette Kamenecka. I’m a writer and an economist and the mother of two girls. Today we pick up the second half of all this story. At the end of last week’s episode, Melissa was on bedrest. She had to leave her job and be home with a four year old husband who worked full time, a town in which she didn’t have a strong support network, because she moved there relatively recently to remind us where she was emotionally I’m going to share an excerpt from Melissa’s writing. This is a sneak preview of her book. In this excerpt, she’s describing the experience of being told about the prospect of a too early birth. She writes:
P 0:08
She writes, I was in preterm labor. The office was located within the women and babies hospital so they took me down on a gurney to the hospital emergency room and started the admissions process. My time in the ER was a blur. I have a very little memory at that time. As I was in shock. I changed into a hospital gown and my husband called his ex wife to come pick up Tommy IVs were inserted and countless nurses and aides were getting me situated and asking what felt like a million questions. I was in a daze. At one point, they informed me that they needed to begin administering a series of steroid shots to give the baby’s lungs a boost in case I delivered that night. I would remain in the hospital while I received a series of shots that included steroids and several other medications designed to stop the labor. She told me that the treatment will feel pretty awful. But we needed to stop the labor because the survival rate at 26 Weeks was only 50%. How was this happening? I was still in the second trimester for goodness sakes. What do I do to deserve so much loss in my life? Once again, I felt like my life was falling apart and I didn’t have my mom. I prayed my little heart out. And every few hours I gave thanks that I was still pregnant. The baby was still alive and growing. The Hours crept by another shot was administered. Hours turn into days and my pregnancy continued. It was at this point in the hospital when the Shock and Terror of it all began to be that all of the other factors I needed to deal with came crashing down. It was at this moment I began to feel the full impact of becoming a mom without having the assistance of my own mom.
M 2:25
It was it was really tough that again, this was a time when I really wished I had sisters with a mother and my aunt God bless her lived in a different state, but she was there for emotional support. My dad lives you know in a different state as well. So he wasn’t any help. I did have an emotional health but he’s still bad.
P 2:48
Yeah, yeah. It’s different. It’s different.
M 2:50
Yes, yes. So
P 2:52
this sounds like a way too much for one person to bear.
M 2:57
Yeah, it was it was a lot it was a lot but, you know, thankfully, we got to 36 weeks. Wow. Yeah. And I went in and they’re like, okay, because I got in and you know, an uptick in like a contraction. So like you’re 36 weeks at this point. We’re not going to stop it. So if you if you deliver, you deliver. Okay, that’s exciting. But it’s deliver.
P 3:26
I mean, so it was it was 10 weeks between finding the issue and yeah, that’s a long time.
M 3:32
10 weeks on absolute depths. Yep. And in and out of you ever hospital more shots and checks and all that and what, what year is this? This was 2010
P 3:45
Okay, so not I’m imagining there’s less for you to do from your day than there
M 3:49
is yeah, there was no yeah, it was no zoom. And, yeah, I couldn’t work whereas now you’re like, Yeah, I need to I mean, that was Yeah, yeah, it was definitely not like it is now. And so, yeah, so 36 weeks. Wow. Like, okay, you’re off that rest. Let’s try and get moving. We need to build your strength up. So, I’m like, Okay, I’ve been in bed for 10 weeks, and now I need to start removing, but it felt like the world opened up and went outside. That Halloween was that week so we took my my oldest trick or treating and then of course, the contractions went up. So that night, we went again to the hospital, and they sent us home. And I made it to 37 weeks.
P 4:40
Wow. Are you are you appreciating the irony of being sent home at 36 weeks? Yes.
M 4:45
Oh, I was I was like, Okay, this is good. Well, the funny thing is, Paulette, this is hilarious. We still joke about this. So Halloween night, they sent us home, it was like 2am and we get stopped. There was a DUI checkpoint, right? And so they stop us like where are you going? And my husband’s like, home where have you been? Have you been drinking, sir, you know? And he’s like, No, I don’t drink you know, he’s 30 years clean and sober. So no, I don’t drink recovering from women’s and babies. My wife was in labor. And then you know the two officers shine my light right in my belly. It was hilarious. Like,
M 5:23
okay laugh because it was just like in unison Right, right. So my belly.
P 5:32
That’s awesome. Well, a very legit costume. It sounds like
M 5:37
so, so we go in, and at that point, we were going in every day, just because I did. They wouldn’t become stronger. They would become, you know, scheduled. And at this point, I was like, I don’t know what to do. I was four centimeters dilated for about a week. Wow. Yeah. So and my husband was terrified of like, going me delivering the baby while we’re on our way to the hospital. So but ever third 2010 I woke up really severe pain. I said I think something’s different but let’s get there. So we got there. How still only four centimeter dilated? Just like Alright, I’m gonna send you over to the hospital again. As you know, I’m on that ball. You know, and I’m doing my thing and I’m walking. And then she comes in and at this point, tears are running down my face. And I said to my husband, I said I can’t move. I can’t keep doing this. I don’t know how it will be different. Because remember, I I’ve been having contractions for months there. Yeah. And so she comes in and she’s like, You’re five centimeters dilated to this I promise you we won’t send you home you’re gonna deliver your baby with you know, today or tomorrow. Like all right so she left and then literally 20 minutes later. So the at this part quite I’m still on like the emergency part of the labor and delivery hospital. So very well admit you. So they haven’t even started getting that paperwork together. And my waterproof which was like oh, okay, we’re going to and she was like, alright, it’ll take three five and 10 hours. What I felt, you know, I was walking there like what do you want us to roll you to to, you know, the your actual room. What do you want? At that point, I had pain. Like I never imagined my life and it literally froze me. Like, I couldn’t move. I couldn’t speak. I couldn’t I couldn’t literally I was just stationary like statute. And at that point in time, I thought I can’t do five hours this because I had wanted a natural birth you know? So once my husband called for help and the nurses were able to like get me onto a gurney and there started rolling it and I was able to get the words out. Epidural, please Like okay, we’ll order that. So they get me into my labor room. And I’m just like, in this incredible intense pain, I could barely talk. And you know, the, the nurses asked me all the admission questions and my husband’s answering it and I start like, like, PSP and push into the quad he talks are pushing up. So let me check you. I was nine centimeters. Wow. five centimeters to nine centimeters in 20 minutes.
P 8:29
I was gonna say on the other walk from the ER it sounds like yeah,
M 8:32
20 minutes. She’s like, Oh, okay. Go ahead and push you doing your thing. I’m sorry, sweetheart. You can not get an epidural. And this this is happening. Right now. Like, oh, okay, well, she’s it goes, but it’s usually been an hour now. And my husband’s like, Honey, don’t worry, you can handle anything for an hour. And he was right in my head. I’m like, Yeah, that’s a patient. Right? You know, because in my life, everything is you know, the hours that I know when an hour looks like I can do this. Like, okay, okay. And again, barely talk. I’m doing like doing my husband’s answering the questions. And so they call the doctor back. And I was just very quick so she comes back. It’s been less than an hour. I just like oh my gosh, they’re there he is here he comes out there in time to catch the baby cow. Wow, my delivery was was only an hour so I kind of joke my pregnancy, but man my delivery was like like eautiful I mean, you know, I didn’t even have a Tylenol like it was just, you know, all natural and everything. You know, it was just wonderful.
P 9:46
That’s amazing. There’s something to be said for contractions that can be measured with a calendar instead of a stopwatch.
M 9:53
Yes, yes. Absolutely. Yeah, right. Exactly. Oh my gosh. Well, and the thing is, is I, you know, I said to
M 10:00
my husband, I’m glad I didn’t have that material. Because there is no way I would have been doing what I was doing. If I did have all that sensation in my body. You Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. Like I needed. I needed the sensation of my bike like I needed. I mean, labor was hard, right? Yeah, physically. Nobody talks about that right. How physical it is like, like, you know, I’ve run a marathon. I know what difficult strain is. And there’s a physical strength that goes into labor. And I don’t know that I wasn’t able to tap into that physical strain. If I didn’t have you know, that sensation
P 10:49
if you couldn’t feel anything? Yeah, for sure. For sure. It is. I think for all of us pregnancy, every aspect of pregnancy is more physical than you imagine. And it may be that that the language doesn’t capture the visceral feeling in a way that you can that you can feel it or that it’s just not like anything else. So most stories about feelings are analogized but but there’s there’s nothing like pregnancy. There’s nothing like birth there’s nothing like those contractions and I remember the contractions keeping me from breathing. I was thinking this is a terrible system, aren’t I? Gonna need to breathe? This is
M 11:25
right. And I was terrified because being on bedrest, I hadn’t taken any, you know, delivery courses, like you know, the classes. I was terrified. I didn’t know what to do and again back then and it’s not like they would do a virtual class. You I had broken my pelvis when I was 16. So part of me was still terrified that like that would become broken and so well, yeah, all this fear going into it. But, again, I was very blessed with with a very beautiful delivery.
P 12:03
That’s amazing. And in reminding us in 2010 Are they putting the baby on your chest and
M 12:08
yes, yes. And in this hospital, babies and moms were together and they had a nursery, but the nursery was only utilized if the mom requested it. And they encouraged it. I was not being separated from my baby after everything I got through.
P 12:29
So I think his lungs were fine and he was fine.
M 12:33
He he did not need the NICU. He was definitely jaundice. So there was some, you know, a little bit of extra checking that needed to be done. But that we didn’t know until a couple of years later that he has some neurological differences. Because of the shots that were given to stop his his delivery. He had what’s called childhood apraxia of speech, as well as some other conditions. So he didn’t nurse a he struggled with nursing which is a common symptom of that disorder. But we didn’t know it at the time. That isn’t something that’s diagnosed too much later.
P 13:18
Is it something to do with how his mouth moves is that what that
M 13:22
apraxia is a dysfunction in movement. So the brain says move something, but the nerves that connect for the body to them respond, don’t transmit the message very well. And so that’s why part of why that there’s it becomes problematic so yes, he struggled with latching now I was so pigheaded and so stubborn and I really wanted to nurse so i We did everything we could we got lactation consolidated. And I was so determined because we needed to supplement with formula but the more formula we supplemented with, the more uncomfortable he became like he just wasn’t responding well to the formula. And so I was just really determined, and we got the hang of it and it became a good nurser at about five weeks. It just took a really long time. That’s typical him was a little delayed and things he gets there a little longer.
P 14:28
Well, that sounds like it worked out that you were firm about the breastfeeding
M 14:32
because, yes, yes. And I thought pregnancy was hard. Oh my goodness. Once I got to the breastfeeding, it was like oh my god, this is even harder.
P 14:41
Well if you think about it is coordinating so many things almost not what you have real control over right? You can affect milk supply, you can affect latch really. No, that’s
M 14:52
no, you know, nobody tells you like all these people are touching my breasts. At this point, I was like, Okay, well it was labor and delivery. Everyone was touching those private parts. Now it was such a nice private party. Okay, so it’s like, Alright, forget it. I’m not you know, I became one of those women that was like, Alright, I’m breastfeeding my baby and you see my breasts, but it’s,
P 15:12
yeah, yeah, you really lose that sense of privacy of your own body pretty
M 15:18
quickly. Yes.
P 15:20
I guess interestingly, you didn’t really have that labor because it went so quickly. But so many women tell the story where they’re like 11 hours in I did not care but I was naked and like, you know, the guy with the food cart is walking through like everyone’s here. All right. He really didn’t have so, so that seems this all seems like a triumph that you made that far the pregnancy that the birth worked out. But you started this by talking about how you didn’t have your mother around for kind of the hard parts and I’m guessing it was also tricky. Not to have your mother there for this joyous part.
M 15:55
That’s right. I was taken. So by surprise, you know, I envisioned this being this joyous occasion and it was without a doubt, right? But I wasn’t expecting the flood of grief that I then experienced. For quite a while that I knew I was high risk was part of it. I certainly experienced that. But the experience of grief that also came along. I wasn’t expecting my mom had died 11 years prior I had you experienced grief. I knew what that was like I’d gone through many adult milestones, no jobs, husbands, divorces, moods, you know, without my mom, but this was different. And becoming a mom, I felt so inadequate. I felt so incapable I had no idea what I was doing. Despite the fact I was a clinical psychologist and taught child development and treated women. You know, in parenting. So I had all the knowledge in I was just a shy of 30 and I was pretty confident as a woman myself. And this brought me to my knees. So because I didn’t realize the impact that not having a mom my life would have. I didn’t have somebody to ask questions of I didn’t have somebody to share. That joy in the same way that that moms share. I didn’t have somebody that could just come over and give me time for a nap or a shower. Right? I couldn’t call her in the middle of the night. I didn’t have these things. And I didn’t know what an impact not having them had. On me was having. So what did I do? I just internalized it and thought there was something wrong with me. And so that’s why I became very passionate about talking about fitness. Because I want other moms that don’t have the support and guidance of a loving mom in their life to know that there isn’t something wrong with that. Because it’s hard. We all know being a mom is hard. But the reality is the uncomfortable truth is that being a mom without a mom is even harder and there isn’t something wrong with you and you’re not alone. There are literally millions of us. But again like miscarriage, nobody’s talking about it. Nobody talks about
P 18:28
Yeah, that’s totally true. It is it is unfortunate cultural oversight defect mistake to not talk about it. And to not have like a ritualized practice around how to manage that specific kind of grief. Right.
M 18:44
Exactly. Exactly. And how to support you know, support the women that need that. Yeah, so
P 18:51
yeah, that sounds that sounds like a profound thing that you went through and that you and that you eventually understood. Are you giving talks about this or like, how do you spread your message?
M 19:02
Well, you know, that a year ago, I made the decision to start a coaching practice, focused on assisting moms without a mom. And so I’ve done talking about it, and podcasts. I’ve been doing some summits and speaking about 90% finished with the book I’m writing. And so I’d love to get the message out and I want to support as many moms as I can. Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah. And that’s why I’m doing it as coaching rather than just therapy because I’ve been working with moms that as part of my clinical work, but I want to be able to reach a broader number of women.
P 19:44
I think it’s so valuable and i i can so see what you’re saying as as a super important message. I remember my mom coming to visit me when the baby was really young. And we went out maybe for our first or second walk in the end of the street. And it started raining and I started sobbing like you need so you know what to me like she was like if they can get wet. It’s one of their tricks like it’s, but I know the feeling of helplessness as a new mom where you just, it all seems so foreign and this is such a giant transformation that I feel like we kind of focus on it with, you know, baby clothes and like strollers or something like some commercial aspect, as opposed to the, you know, deep emotional transformation that has gone on that you don’t quite understand in the moment. That you kind of need a guide you really do, right? So I can imagine that it’s even harder if you’re blaming yourself for not having the guide and not feeling competent, even. I mean, you’re like the perfect example as someone who teaches this stuff but right the embodied experience. So it was different, right?
M 21:02
Absolutely. And I didn’t have you know, it didn’t have sisters. I did great. I did. And it was older. So all my friends that had children and their kids were teenagers or adults at this point. So this is really out of sync.
P 21:16
Yeah, that’s amazing. So I’m so glad you came on and shared your story. I so appreciate it. And how do people find you?
M 21:23
Well, easily my I have a website called Moms without a mom.com They can find me on Instagram. At mom’s dad mom. I’m also on Tik Tok and Facebook and I’ll give you all that information. On my website. I have two free guides one for moms of newborns. It’s called care for yourself while you care for your baby. Because as a mom without a mom, you know self care isn’t about getting time by yourself. If you don’t have anybody to watch your baby, you have to take care of yourself while your baby’s there. So I have six pretty easy tips to do that my favorite ones.
P 22:04
Okay, awesome. That sounds great. Well, I will definitely put that in the show notes. So thank you so much for sharing your story.
M 22:11
You are welcome. Thank you so much, Paulette, I appreciate it.
P 22:15
Being a first time mother is challenging in a million ways, given that every single thing changes after birth, your body, your role, your relationship with your partner, your relationship to your work, and the world in general, is particularly helpful. To have people to consult with and few people are going to feel questions of any size or shape at any hour like your own mother. Most of the message is so important to share that everyone finds this transition challenging. It’s not a reflection of someone’s ability to be a mother if they feel this challenge. In general, we would all be better off if there were many more sources of support for the pregnancy and postpartum periods. I’m always inspired by people who use their own experience of hardship to help people that follow them and this transition. Thanks again to Melissa for sharing her story. Thanks for listening. We’ll be back next week with another inspiring story
Episode 71: Becoming a Mother without my Mother: Melissa’s story, Part I
Episode 71SN: Becoming a Mother without my Mother: Melissa’s story, Part I
Today’s guest is a clinical psychologist, whose mother passed away a few years before she had any direct experience of pregnancy. She encounters recurrent miscarriage, three in the first trimester, and then a pregnancy that progresses past the first trimester, only to be threatened with prematurity early in the third trimester and experience all of these challenging and transformative events are harder to manage without her mother. Now she’s focused on helping women who are going through or have gone through these major life events without their mothers. What follows is the first part of our conversation. Next Friday we’ll hear the rest.
To find Melissa’s sites:
Website: https://www.momswithoutamom.com/
https://www.instagram.com/momswithoutamom/
https://www.facebook.com/Dr.MelissaReilly
https://www.tiktok.com/@momswithoutamom
Enjoy Being a Mom Again Quick Guide: https://www.momswithoutamom.com/enjoy-motherhood-again-guide
Care For Yourself While You Care For Your Baby Guide: https://melissareillypsyd.lpages.co/bonding-with-baby-while-caring-for-yourself-opt-in
Schedule a complimentary coaching call: https://MelissaReillyPsyD-MomsWithoutAMom.as.me/free-coaching-call
How common is miscarriage
https://www.acog.org/womens-health/faqs/repeated-miscarriages
Audio Transcript
Paulette: Hi, welcome to war stories from the womb. I’m your host Paulette Kamenecka. I’m a writer and an economist and the mother of two girls. Today’s guest is a clinical psychologist, whose mother passed away a few years before she had any direct experience of pregnancy. She encounters recurrent miscarriage, three in the first trimester, and then a pregnancy that progresses past the first trimester, only to be threatened with prematurity early in the third trimester and experience all of these challenging and transformative events are harder to manage without her mother. Now she’s focused on helping women who are going through or have gone through these major life events without their mothers. What follows is the first part of our conversation. Next Friday, we’ll hear the rest.
Let’s get to her inspiring story.
Hi, thanks so much for coming on the show. Can you introduce yourself and tell us where you’re from?
Melissa: Absolutely. So my name is Melissa Riley, and I am from Lititz, Pennsylvania or that’s where I’m living is in Lititz, Pennsylvania and I’ve been here for 13 years.
P : Oh, wow, nice. Situate us in Pennsylvania. Where is that?
M : It’s the southern part. It’s in Lancaster County. So if you think about Amish country, yeah, that’s where I am and about an hour and a half west of Philadelphia.
P: Okay, excellent.
So normally, I asked people about their experience with their family and whether it affected their ideas about what they wanted in the future. And I know from our brief conversation before we started recording that the answer to this is already going to be yes. But usually I cast it in terms of like, did you have siblings did you know you want to have kids but but why don’t you tell me a little bit about your story?
M: Absolutely. So I was born into a family with a mom, dad and older sister and then 18 months later came my younger sister. And unfortunately my older sister was diagnosed with leukemia. And she, unfortunately in the 70s that was, you know, a terminal condition. And so my parents were needing to take care of her. Of course, unfortunately, she passed away at the age of seven, and I was only four. And then life went on and I was very close with my mom. She was a very strong woman larger than life, both physically and personality wise. Everybody knew her. And me and my younger sister were very close. And so I did always envision myself having a family and children. Well, things started to fall apart. I went to college and learned things that you know, my family wasn’t what I thought it was. And my mother and I had an estrangement that I know we would have worked through. But we had the estrangement about eight months prior.
P : Let me ask a quick question. Before you get to where you’re going here. Do you want to talk about my family wasn’t what I thought it was. Do you want to elaborate on that?
M : sure, sure… My mom, you know, both my parents, God bless them. Our whole life was impacted by the death of my sister after she died. We never talked about it ever. Death was something that I learned was so terrible. You couldn’t even talk about which of course isn’t true. But that was the underlying message that was passed along to me. And my parents didn’t mean to do that. It was just too painful for them. Right. So we never talked about it. And my mom became pretty depressed and my mother had her own history of some significant physical and emotional abuse herself. So she had a difficult time regulating her own emotions. So my parents corporate punishment, punishment was involved. You know, I became the overachiever. My little sister became the difficult one. Because, I mean, she had learning disabilities and ADHD and she was just talking to parents. And so things just weren’t as they see my mother was at, you know, a chain smoker, you know, overweight diabetic. Just didn’t take care of herself. She tried to but just, yeah, so became her own life shrink and just became, you’ll very inward, and he didn’t like what she did too bad. Then there were things that she did that I didn’t like, and it just, you know, in my mid 20s, we were butting heads about it.
P: Didn’t you become a psychologist?
M: Yes. So surprisingly, as the as the good kid and a family takes care of everybody else’s needs, and makes life easy for everybody else. Since life was very hard for us when we were young. Yes, I was very good at being empathic. I could sense anybody’s motion around me without anybody needing to say the words so it isn’t surprising that I became a clinical psychologist. And I went straight through college and graduate school was in the process of getting my doctorate when my mom died. But we had an estrangement eight months prior to her death. And so that complicated that factor even more,
P and had you you hadn’t repaired that before. She died? It sounds like
M: no,we hadn’t. It was right before I was graduating. And we had after eight months of not talking talk to twice before, in like the two weeks before she died. And I told her I had interviews for my residency. And so we had a cordial conversation, which was awesome. I mean, so I know that we would have repaired, you know, the injuries and, and all of that, but it just, we didn’t have the opportunity. She She died at 51
P : yeah that’s young. And that sounds pretty shocking for your family.
M: Yes, it was. It was very shocking. Yeah, I needed to be the one to go tell my sister. You know, she my sister, unfortunately, had pretty significant mental illness. She was bipolar disorder. One. She was in and out of hospitals. Since the age of 16. Pretty much she had some medical conditions herself, and then all sorts of substance abuse, but she was clean and sober for the last year. of her life. And we didn’t know because of, you know, her psychiatric conditions, it masked some pulmonary problems. And so, anyway, I’ll get into that in a second. But so my dad didn’t feel strong enough to tell my sister so I was living in Pennsylvania. My sister was living in Connecticut. My dad was living in New York. So first I went, got dad, and then we went to Connecticut and I was the one that had to tell my sister that our mother had died.
P: Wow,
M: it’s very difficult.
P: This this to the outside observer. Sounds like you’re doing a lot of mothering before being a mother.
M Oh, yes. It sounds like Yeah. Without a doubt, without a doubt.
P : And so this all sounds incredibly hard. And but but you walk away from this and say, I want a family of my own. Oh, my own kids.
M : Well, that’s not that’s gonna happen right away. Okay. Like I said, when I was young, I did and then later said, All this mental illness or this medical stuff, because my my younger sister died seven months after my mother did so. So the the man who was married to at the time was very adamant. is like, you can’t have kids we cannot continue this bloodline. Well, the the sad divorced him, but I really internalize that sense like, Oh, my goodness, my failing genetic gene pool. Is it awesome? Right? Lots of mental illness, lots of medical illness. So for the next number of years, I was like, Oh, I don’t know that I should have any children. So
P can I ask one probably naive question. Yes. How strongly do genetics predict mental illness?
M: considerably. There’s a significant correlation. Certain certain disorders are more highly connected with Jin genetics than others bipolar one being one of them. Okay. Yeah. But anxiety, depression, they all have a genetic component. So it’s similar like heart disease. So if your parent has heart disease, that doesn’t mean you’re going to get heart disease,
P: right
M: It just means that you’re more vulnerable to heart disease, and it will show up under certain circumstances.
P : Okay. All right. Fair. Okay. Keep going. Alright. So so the we are separated from the husband, he doesn’t seem supportive. And now we’re moving on. Okay,
M : we are moving on. My focus is on my career. I’m a clinical psychologist. You know, I taught you know, in graduate school to development, so I’m going along, you newly married, very happy and life goes on. And I realized I do want children and so we start trying and I’m in my mid 30s At this point, and I have my first miscarriage
P: let me let me back here for one second year. So two questions. Question number one, what do you think pregnancy is going to be like before you get pregnant?
M: I didn’t really well, let me not say that. I wanted to be one of those women who loved pregnancy. I was like, you know, I doesn’t matter if I’m uncomfortable. I’m gonna love this whole process. So I was one of those women who thought it was just a matter of deciding to love it wasn’t going to be crazy.
P Okay so So that’s what we have stepping in and then is it easy to get pregnant?
M: Yeah, it was easy to get pregnant.
P: Good. Okay, good. One thing down. Now you said the first pregnancy ends in miscarriage?
M: Yes, yes. And honestly, that first the first pregnancy took me by surprise, because I, you know, had never gotten pregnant my entire life, despite not being very active and preventing it for many periods. So I was really surprised, but Okay, here we go. Wonderful. I’m excited. And then miscarried and miscarried at about 10 weeks. So that was very devastating. And I felt very alone. And I’d known my mother had one miscarriage. When I didn’t really know many other women who had of course after my miscarriage, I found out about a lot of women who had because it’s not something that’s talked about a lot.
P: do now that I have a psychologist in front of me, I’m gonna ask do we do we think that’s our allergy to talking about death and hard things? Or do we think it’s something in particular like culturally, or do we think it’s something particular about the pregnancy process?
M: I think it’s a little bit of a both. Our culture is very averse to talking about death, but we’re also very uncomfortable with uncomfortable emotion, and uncomfortable emotion is normal and natural and isn’t something to avoid distress is, but it’s really important to recognize the difference between the two and unfortunately, in our culture, we do not do a good job of differentiating.
P So can you lay up Can you lay out the difference since we’re talking about
M Absolutely. So uncomfortable is anything that again, we don’t like we don’t want it’s unpleasant, but it doesn’t create danger for us. It isn’t something that can be harmful to us. distress, on the other hand, triggers a response within our body that activates a system that tries to get us to get away from the situation that’s causing it. So that signals potential harm to our body or our well being. So things like boredom is uncomfortable, but it’s not distressing. Isolation, right if you are isolated, because you’ve been rejected. Now, that’s distressing, because being a loan for long periods of time, particularly if you’re young, can endanger your well being if I pinch your skin that’s going to hurt. That’s uncomfortable, right? But if I were to rip your skin off your hand, it creates a wound that’s distressing, something is wrong. Does that does that make sense?
P So this is totally helpful and and I’m wondering if miscarriage falls in a gray area where it is it right it’s it’s this is
M miscarriage is definitely distressing without a demo. That sounds like talking about it. Right and talking about our motion is uncomfortable.
P: Okay, okay, that’s fair
M : so the experience of death is very distressing, without a doubt, but the emotion around it, and that is especially when other people are communicating and may feel uncomfortable with somebody else’s grief. That’s that’s discomfort. Okay, we try to avoid that.
P : Let me try to repeat back to you what I think he said to you can put me on the right place here. It sounds like distress is something that triggers your autonomic nervous system to put you in like fight or flight. And then and that shift potentially has like, sends chemical signals to your body and has all kinds of downstream repercussions. But uncomfortable does not induce any of those interior physical things and it’s just, it’s just something you don’t want to do
M Absolutely. However, our brain is so in tune with thinking right? So if we start defining these uncomfortable situations as not tolerable, you know, or dangerous, then the brain reacts as if it’s distress.
P All right, this is tricky. Okay. Yeah. So I’m sorry to pull you away from your story, but no, you know, these things. So I want to ask you, well, I have someone who knows. So this sounds like a really 10 weeks is way too far into the first trimester. To not have it be a really sad event. And is your partner helpful or is anyone helpful or your doctor or
M yes, you know, everybody did, you know all the things that that they could, you know, and, you know, my friends were very supportive and yeah, so I had people rallied around me and and I was very happy about that. I did, but that really longed for my mom,
P for someone who had had the experience in your family who could talk to you about it in a way that other people couldn’t.
M Right. Exactly.
P Well, that sounds hard.
M It was it was. So we had decided that all right. Let’s keep going. My husband had a son from his previous marriage. And he was only three years old when we met so and we got married right away. So it was for at this point, we’re like, okay, I wanted the experience of having a biological child at this point. So try again, so so we try it again. And again, I had a miscarriage and now I started to really worry, like, okay, miscarriage is very common. No, it occurs in one in five pregnancies. All right, but oh, one person having two miscarriages. Not so common.
P Okay, so how common are multiple miscarriages? According to researchers at Yale Medical School, about 15 to 20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. This is Melissa’s one five number. I’m betting it’s actually higher than that because it’s probably not always reported. But let’s use that number as a baseline. So according to these researchers at Yale, they say 2% of women have two consecutive miscarriages, which still could be due to chance and point 5% have three. Just to give a rough idea something on the order of 3.6 million people give birth each year.
M :So try it again. And I had a certain miscarriage. Now all the alarm bells are going off because that is rare.
P are These all at like 10 weeks
M ish. Well, they were getting sooner and sooner. So 10 weeks, eight weeks, and then six weeks.
P Okay, and is your doctor saying this sounds like recurrent miscarriage and that’s a different boat
- Started. Yes, the after the third miscarriage. She said okay, we’re gonna start doing some testing don’t get pregnant, and she took a pregnancy test and it was negative. We’re going to do a test during your next menstrual cycle, but it’s harmful to the potential embryo fetus, so it’s okay, we won’t Well, five days later, I’m pregnant.
I don’t know if the test you took was it? It was just I don’t know. What happened. But yes, I was already pregnant.
P Did you you found out because you got nauseous or you missed your period or like well,
M sensitive breasts. That was my telltale sign with all my pregnancies. All of a sudden, my breasts became really sensitive, very tender, and that’s not a symptom I never experienced during my menstrual cycle. So it was an unusual, so it’s like, Oh, something feels weird. So after being told not to get pregnant, I was like, take this pregnancy test. You know, and sure enough, it was it was positive. So we walk in, she’s like, Well, congratulations, which didn’t feel like congratulations. Because because I was like, I don’t know that I can do this again.
P: Yeah.
M: You know, and, but continue and, and I said, you know, I’ll never forget that first heartbeat that was normal and regular and healthy. It was like, Oh my gosh, you know, that hit 10 weeks. So that was this huge milestone, like Okay, can I get past that? You know, and then I did, and you know, it’s interesting Paulette, with all of my pregnancies. I’m a little different. I told all the people that were important to me, I never kept it silent. And my reasoning for for that is because I knew if I lost my child, I wouldn’t be support.
P: Yeah.
M: So I told everybody in my life that would be supportive and private person so it’s not like I, you know, tell people my personal business in general, but the people that I’m friends with and close with, I didn’t keep it to myself. I told them because I knew I would need them. If I had a loss again, and
P this seems like the way we should all move forward, right? I can’t remember who told me not to tell anyone in the beginning. I feel like maybe it was my doctor. No, no shade intended. But you’re right that the more the course that would help you more the pregnant person in the moment is to have people who know who can help you if it doesn’t work out.
M Right. Right. I’ve worked with so many women that say I don’t want to upset my family. But you’re not upsetting your family because it’s something that’s happening to you.
P: Yeah.
M: And if they’re upset, it’s normal. It’s okay that they’re upset.
P: Yeah, this is upsetting. Yeah,
M: exactly. So, so. So my fourth pregnancy comes along, and it was very nerve wracking. And here I am 37. And I knew I was high risk for a second trimester miscarriage because I had surgery on my cervix earlier in life. So I was already aware of some some high level risks for an advocate that the term you know, with a cervix just opens up spontaneously. So because of my previous my three miscarriages, my advanced age, and I had a thyroid disorder and my previous history of cervical surgery, I was being followed by fetal maternal medicine, which was wonderful, you know, the more medical supports I have around me, the better.
P I agree, I want to wrap you in bubble wrap. Let’s keep going. These next few months I want to
M: Yeah,so here Yeah, you know, all excited and at re 26 week appointments. Just routine appointment doing the ultrasound. They find that I’m dilating. So, the nurse brings in the doctor and it’s like, Okay, we’re gonna do a stress test or you know, we’re they measure your contractions. Oh, yeah, you’re contracting and their regular you’re in labor. I’ll never forget it. I just said, What do you mean I’m in labor? 26 weeks. I know the statistics. So
P and it sounds like you can’t feel it really
M it was uncomfortable, but I was always uncomfortable.
P: yeah, yeah, Yeah.
M: The week prior. I went into the ER because I had pretty severe pain in my back. And they did. They did a a kidney ultrasound. They never did a vaginal ultrasound.. I was I have no doubt I was in labor earlier and it just wasn’t caught. Okay. So I was being pulled over to the ER because it was a beast hospital within a baby’s hospital. The office was attached. And that’s when they started. I got a whole lot of shots to stop labor. I got steroids and was told okay, you need we need to do a series of two steroid shots in case you deliver for this baby we need to get the baby’s lungs here’s what we need to get his lungs developed and delivering it this age only gives us a 50/50 chance of survival. And again, I’m in this whirlwind like what you know, I my four year old, you know, son, you know, steps on my husband at that appointment. We’re all just looking at you like what is going on? So they admit me, and it felt like counting hours at that point. Like I knew there needed to be 12 hours between the two shots at the rate of survival went up if I had gotten a second shot, so literally it felt like counting hours at that point
P and they’re keeping you in the hospital because they can’t turn the lever off. So the shots aren’t working to like the shots which I assume are hormones or something.
M I forget the name of them. I got to see the the two that were critical with the two steroid shots. Each case I gave
P: Yeah. Yeah.
M: And then there was a two other shots. They started with one to see that work because that would be less disruptive. And it didn’t and so then they gave me the second one which was pretty disruptive to my system and everything but But thankfully, it worked the labor stopped progressing.
P: Okay, good.
M: So, after a week in the hospital, and it was no longer progressing. They said okay, we will discharge you on bed rest. And so I needed to see my OB every week and that you know, maternal medicine. Well, the contractions never stopped. So I continue having contractions, which was not a big deal. What we needed to watch was if the contractions became more productive, okay, and so, we had to monitor the level of dilation. And level of effacement of the cervix. And we can only do that by going in Well, I had multiple times at that point going back into the hospital getting more series of shots to stop the pregnancy because it’s it would you know, every now and then an uptick and become more active, which was terrifying. I mean, it was terrifying. But there were all these milestones, right? Okay. So 28 weeks Alright, let’s get let’s get to you know, first it was 28 weeks then, you know, like every week was like, Okay, this UPS our chance of survival. This ups chance of survival. Because at that first appointment, given the statistics of how I was a phased in dilated they gave me a 10% likelihood of carrying to term. So I had that in my head. Okay, I have to we have to make sure that everything is taken care of. So here I am on complete bed rest. We have my stepson who lives with us 50% of the time. My husband was working full time. I had to stop working, obviously. And I only moved into this town that we lived in a year prior when we got married. I didn’t know anybody I’m an introvert. So making friends was pretty hard. I was alone. I was alone.
P Yeah, this sounds this this sounds like it literally are piling one thing on top of another on top of another in terms of how difficult this is. Also I’m imagining they’re saying we’re gonna check your cervix once a week and you’re like, okay, but really, how about every day? How about every day like, wait seven days between each check and keep fingers crossed and
M Well, thankfully, at the OB, you know, one time of the week and then the fetal maternal medicine at the other time we did have to appointment now it was only you know, it was only the fetal maternal medicine that did the the ultrasounds and all of that but the OB was checking the heart rate and my you know, all the typical things.
P; Okay, good. Okay, good.
M: So I had to find rides me was just, it was, it was really tough. And again, this was a time when I really wished I had sisters with a mother and
P: I’m going to stop my conversation with Melissa here. Mother Daughter relationships can and often are many things as a modern day testament to that fact. When I went to the internet looking for articles on mother daughter relationships, we will finish my sentence with the top searches, which included the words difficult, hard and complex. for most of us. Our mother is our very first attachment of the world. And the loss of that whether it’s to death or estrangement can be profound. I appreciate Melissa sharing her story. And next week, she will also share some insights into how she managed all the challenges she faced without her brother. Thanks for listening. We’ll be back next week with the rest of Melissa’s. story