Month: January 2022

P: So today we’re lucky enough to have a fellow podcaster Kaila on who’s got the podcast parent tell which is an awesome podcast about birth and parenting and everything else that goes with it. Is that right Kaila?

Kaila: Yes, we are talking about before you have the baby after you have the baby when you’re thinking about having the baby, everything, everything all parenting because I feel like in a sense it does start when you are pregnant,

P: Yeah, agreed. I read a post somewhere. Maybe it was Instagram that said just to be clear postpartum is every day after the birth forever. So yeah. Your podcast is an accurate reflection of that.

K: Yes, I am. 18 months postpartum. Thank you. 

P: wow, good lord

K: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which like sounds like so much. But when you think about it, and also when you look at how little he still is, it’s not a lot of time at all.

P: want to hear all about him now. We’ll save that for later it was four times. So two questions before the before times you have any siblings?

K: Yes, I do. I’m the middle child. I have one older sister and one younger sister. 

P: Are you guys spaced far apart? Yeah. My older sister is a little over two years older than me and I am five years older than my younger sister. Yeah. So the gap between my younger sister my older sister is gosh, so it’s like seven years. Yeah, but for me, I’m kind of right there in the middle.

P: Nice. And Did you always know you would have a family?

K: I think so. I would say yes. I’ve always known that one a family, but not in the like, and no shade at all to people who are like this. It’s just not how I relate to it. I have not, you know, kept like my clothes to give to my children since I was like 10. That’s not something that I necessarily like day dreamed of when I was a kid. But it was something that I did see myself doing. For sure.

P: So before you ever got pregnant what what did you imagine pregnancy be like?

K: I imagined it was gonna be a lot easier physically. Where it was almost just like something that you don’t really notice until of course, you know, right before your due date. And then you’re like, oh, okay, yeah, now I am really like fat and miserable and pregnant. But I did not anticipate it just my body feeling so different. Right away. And then for the next 10 months, like that was not something I thought it would almost just be like not an afterthought that makes it sound really flippant, but just kind of like this thing. And it’s not necessarily altering my life in any way. But for me, it did and that was before I was super big and bad and couldn’t bend over.

P: you see pregnant women doing everything that everyone else does. And so I think it would be easy to infer from that. Okay, just just a thing that happens. Yeah. So was it easy to get pregnant?

K: For me? It was it took it was two months. Yeah. Yeah, pretty fast. Yeah. It’s when you know, you’re not supposed to stress about it, right? Because then if you’re stressed about even I get pregnant. That was really hard for me. Like the not stressing about it, but it kind of worked out that we were in the middle of moving from the West Coast to the East Coast. So my brain was preoccupied enough but not too stressed to kind of just have it work I guess at least that’s, you know, that’s what I tell myself.

P: That’s awesome. And so, did you find out with a home kit?

K: I did. I was still teaching at the time kindergarten teacher and so again, we just moved so like brand new state city, house, school everything so it was a really busy time and I knew my period was supposed to start soon. And my boobs hurt so bad, like three or four days before my period. But this was on another level. Like I would sit down and the gravity I’d be like, Oh, okay, so I was at school and I remember it was a Friday. In the first six weeks of kindergarten every Friday is like a different color day. So it was red days, like all the teachers were wearing red T shirts. And I remember this so clearly because we took a picture and that’s the last picture that I have of myself when I was pregnant and I didn’t know it. 

K: Oh, wow. 

P: Yeah. So like I have photographic evidence of my giant sore boobs and my tired face and I was pregnant. I just didn’t know. Got home. It was a long day since beginning of school year and it’s very much survival in the kindergarten level. Like get them on the right bus. Get them to the right adult at the end of the day. You did a great job. So I was congratulating myself for a job well done. My husband just had to leave the house for work even though his evening time and I went to pour myself a glass of wine and we have a lot of plastic wine glasses for a reason because I am very clumsy and I will they’ll break in the dishwasher or I’ll just like accidentally knock it over. And that’s exactly what I did. I poured a glass and I turned to put the bottle back in the fridge and I like knocked it off the counter. It was plastic. So like, okay, sad, whatever. And I remember being sad about the windings build. I was like I really like yeah, I’m gonna put another one. So I pour another glass and I go to sit down and drink it. And it tasted like rubbing alcohol. 

P: Oh, wow. 

K: Yeah. And I just was like, Who, what? And I was just really thrown off and like, kind of confused and didn’t really want to drink it. And I didn’t really I didn’t think like oh, this means I’m pregnant. I was just kind of like, okay, that’s really weird. And then I’m sitting watching an episode of Grey’s Anatomy and like tear jerker on a standard like on a level one to 10 Probably like a six or seven for some people. I was full on like, Niagara Falls, and it wasn’t even a super sad part. And that’s why I was like, whoo, I really am about to start my period like okay, whoo, this is this is heavy. There’s something happening. And I went to sleep like didn’t that I didn’t really think about it. I took the test the next day. My husband, I were hanging out in the living rooms, we had just moved into this house. We’re renting and so we were unpacking stuff and like, you know, our TV was like on the floor and we’re eating like sitting on coolers and stuff and like travel chairs. And I was like, I’m just gonna go do it. Because my boobs hurt. So like, there’s no way I’m just gonna go do it. And I didn’t say anything to him. I just like walked out the room, went to the bathroom, took the test and you have to wait two minutes, three minutes. 

P: Yeah. yeah

K:  The longest, you know, three minutes of your life. And I told myself I was like no, I’m I’m gonna like, I’ll wash my hands and I’ll leave the bathroom and I’ll go do something like I’m not going to sit in here and wait, that’s not going to work for me. I’ll just come back. It’s not going to move. And I came back and I looked at it and I kind of expected it to be negative. Especially I feel like I’ve never had you know, I’ve never had a kid before. So it’s not I didn’t really had enough no idea what I was walking into. And I lift it up and I said oh shit. And I ran out to the front living room and I showed my house and he only has been eating breakfast because he had a doughnut in his mouth. And as I’m like, I’m like welling up I’m holding it and I’m like, I’m pregnant and his mouth is full. And he’s like, Oh my God…. So that’s like a really happy funny memory that I have. And I remember we hugged and we cried. And then I posed with the stick and he took my picture. And yeah, and that’s how I found out and I had to wait. It was like two weeks to go to the doctor or for them to confirm so funny. I went to the doctor. They’re like all right, we’ll probably call you tomorrow because it was an evening appointment. And they called me like 30 minutes later, they’re like, Yep, you’re really pregnant. 

P: Wow, that’s a good call to get. 

K: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me it was it was easy to get pregnant. And it was like a happy, positive initial experience. It was very like, I mean, I said oh shit for a reason. Like I was excited but also at the same time, like, what have we done? You know, like, it’s very like, oh, oh, okay, here we go. 

P: There’s this sense of like hearing a door closed behind you. Right, like so then what was it? What was the first trimester like it feels like your body’s kind of sensitive because you are getting all these signs early. So how did that go?

K: yeah, I’m very, I’m very in tune with my body. And I feel like I’ve kind of always been that way, which is good and bad though, because you just feel everything. The first trimester overall, it really wasn’t that bad. The fatigue though. was unlike anything I’ve ever experienced in my life. I felt like a literal zombie. And I had just never 

P: Yeah, 

K: never felt like that knockdown drag out, tired in my life. And of course, again, beginning of the school year, I was also in grad school at the time, and I was just like, barely keeping my eyes open for at least eight to nine weeks. It was It was rough. I didn’t puke. I picked one time. This is really gross. Can I say gross things? 

P: Yeah. 

K: Okay. I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone this except for my husband is here to witness it. We had like cauliflower pizza and it just like didn’t sit well with me and I also didn’t like the smell of it. Smell was a big thing for me. It was pre was pre pregnancy. So then I was basically a bloodhound when I was pregnant. And it was really rough some time. Not my words, my husband’s words. He’s going to call his bloodhound which like, that’s fine. Thank you. I just was like, Oh, I really really don’t like that smell. I need to leave. I think we had had it. Maybe the previous days. Maybe it was like leftovers. Maybe that’s why it smelled extra funky. So I went to go do number two. The smell of my own poop made me vomit. And that’s the only time I vomited during my pregnancy. And it was because of me. So I was double dragoning at about like, six, seven weeks pregnant and that was like one of the lowest lows.

P: That’s pretty bad. I feel like I would love to top you. I can’t.

K: It was yeah, it was it was really gross. And it was I mean me screaming like, can you come bring me a bag? Because you know as I’m like, Oh no, this is not this is not good. This is not good. But other than that, I got nauseous, probably like around the same time every morning and I no longer liked to drink the tea that I normally drink. I can drink it now but it tastes like cigarettes at the time. 

P: Oh wow. 

K: other than that, I didn’t have any any effects that like, made me have to leave my classroom and run to the bathroom or anything. I was super fucking tired. And also just constantly felt like I had eaten a ginormous dinner. Like 24/7 Like just the bloat.

P: Right, despite the fact that the embryos still is so tiny and I unlike you, I’m not in tune with my body at all at that point in my life. But I remember I was in grad school. I just remember waking up and lifting my head from the keyboard I have like, like keys and printed on my forehead and just be confused about like, what am I doing in the computer room surrounded by people you know, I have just fallen dead asleep. Yeah. It is a different kind of weariness. 

K:  yeah, it’s not just this is not just like mentally tired. Like you’re deeply physically exhausted. Yeah. Yeah. And that was hard. That was hard for me to be teaching and then come home and in school myself. That was a rough rough time. For me.

P: That seems amazing because kindergarten looks like you know, the center of chaos. So

K: it is an active Yeah, I mean, it’s herding cats. Especially Oh my god. So I am not the beginning of the school year type of gal. I despise the school. Year in kindergarten, because they just don’t know anything. That’s like I’m literally teaching them how to stand on the line, which is exhausting. You know, so it was I’m glad I got pregnant when I did. You know everything worked out. But it was very, very difficult at the time just so tired and then try not to be stressed because stress is bad for the baby. Because cortisol is such a powerful hormone. And yeah, that was another thing running through my head too.

P: Yeah, that’s a tricky dual space to occupy where you’re like I’m not freaking out because freaking out was bad but I’m not not freaking out. Cause I’m pregnant. 

K: Yeah, yeah. 

P: Was the rest of the pregnancy smooth?

K: Yeah, honestly pretty much it. second trimester I fully understood. I was called honeymoon trimester because starting around week i members week 11 I woke up one day and it was like I was awake for the first time in about 11 or 12 weeks and it was just like whoa, I can sit here and not want to fall asleep and it was kind of like I not got my life back but I was just awake again. And that made a huge difference for me. 

My brother in law has this big or pre COVID had this big Halloween party at his house every single year. And I had kind of coerced all of my husband’s family into doing a big group costume because it was our first time on the East Coast in three years. So we did Marvel. 

P: Well, that’s fun. 

K: Yeah. And so I told Jimmy my husband I was like okay, we’re going to take a picture like in our costumes. So I’m going to say like, Oh, we’re gonna take a picture in our costumes, like, let’s all stand in the same position. Like before without our costumes and I have gotten this shirt that said, you can stop asking when I’m having a baby now because my mother in law is classic. She loves babies and she loves her grandchildren. And she’s just so excited. And I was like, okay, lady, leave me alone. I love her but I was like, okay, back off. we convinced everyone to take this picture. And we had like when the neighborhood kids took the picture and I gave him my phone I think and I was like, make sure you say one two three before you take the picture, which is like, good practice anyway. Because right after he said three, I yelled, I’m pregnant. And so we caught everyone’s reaction.

P: Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah, it was well done.

K: Thank you. You know, I wasn’t thinking about being a mom when I was 10. But when I was 26, 27, I was thinking about stuff like that, like, oh my gosh, like what would be a really cute way to tell our families that I’m pregnant. So that was a really cute moment. Yeah, second trimester was easy

P: let me just say that you’re you’re nailing it so far. Everything here is I like the pregnancy reveal to your husband and to the family. This is going swimmingly. Okay. Keep going. Yeah.

K: Thank you. Thank you to my dad. It was much more just like, right it was because also like know your audience like yeah, it’s not, you know, like, he’s a very like cut and dry, stoic kind of person. And so he came to visit us and we were just talking and he said something like, Oh, why aren’t you going to drink or something like that? And I like slightly lift up my shirt. And I was like, because I’m praying you know, it’s very chill, or very chill person. 

P: Yeah, 

K: I got really bad. sinus congestion, though. Oh, my words. Yeah. Towards the end of my second trimester, like couldn’t breathe out of my nose for two months. Three months. Wow. It was awful. And so, you know, your nasal passages swell up when you are pregnant naturally, because you have more blood running through your body and it’s just how it works. But for me, it just completely blocked me up. So I was pretty miserable for a little while. And of course, when you are pregnant that you can’t take anything so I could take flown days. So I mean, I was shooting up that flown is at least at least two or three times a day like just to have any sort of relief. I had heartburn really wasn’t anything that was overtly hard. I would say that I had a harder time with my body image. 

P: Yeah, 

K: so it was harder on me mentally in terms of my body is changing and I did not give you permission to change necessarily.

P: It’s dramatic and strange, right? I remember in the second trimester for the first child. I kept showing my husband my belly saying I’m doing it wrong. It can’t be this is what everyone looks like. This is bizarre. I look like I’m a pear. Like it’s just weird, right?

K: Yeah. And everyone carries differently, which is I think something else that I learned too. While it was happening to me and I, because I would receive so many comments, which again, did not help my body image at that time. I would get my god you’re so tiny. Are you even pregnant? In the same day? I would get Wow, you look really pregnant today. I’m just like cool, cool, cool….. Oh, please, please, please stop talking about my body. 

P: Yeah, 

K: and I think pregnancy actually brought up a lot of dormant feelings that I maybe had when I was in early college late high school and or feelings that I didn’t necessarily know that I had about my own body and not feeling comfortable in it and also really not wanting and not being open to accepting comments about my body from other people. And I mean, you’re basically a moving target when you’re pregnant. So it was that’s really hard,

P: that’s a weird thing right? Is it is you somehow become like public property and people want to feel your belly. It’s a weird time. Your disdain for that seems right on. Yeah, it shouldn’t be. That shouldn’t be right.

K: Yeah, it was very cringy sometimes for me and I felt like it was very much like Don’t look at me like Can you can you stop How can I concave my chest to make myself smaller? So maybe people don’t even notice? You know, I wasn’t thinking those thoughts all the time. 

And I feel like it’s after. I mean, really starting for me, like at week 25. You’re like, your body is different every day, like every week, and it’s really it’s really hard to keep up not only like in terms of clothing, but mentally preparing yourself or like getting used to what you’re going to see in the mirror which is completely different from what you have seen. For the past 1015 20 years. It was very, that was very jarring for me. 

P: it’s also weird to have something like an autopilot installed in your body in a way that has never been used before. So your body is different in ways that you have no control over and it’s not like working out or going running where you’re making changes to your body in this very blunt, purposeful way. It’s kind of happening to you, right? So it’s weird.

K: Yeah. To wake up one day and just be you know, walking the same path from your bed, to your bathroom and all of a sudden you’re hit with lightning. crotch and you’re just like, fuck, like, yeah, now we have to deal with this. And I already am dealing with all of these different things. No one told me those things. No one told me that it was going to be I love your analogy of the autopilot because that that is what it is.

 Your body already came equipped with that you just didn’t know you’ve never used it. You’ve never read the manual and so you have no idea how it’s gonna work. And so it’s going to completely throw you off. And I just was so caught off guard by that but I will say by right around like late February, early March. So right before the pandemic hit and everything really shut down here. I was able to kind of let go and just be at peace and also appreciate the fact that my body is doing something amazing. 

P: Yeah. 

K: And yes, it’s without my permission. But it’s so strong and so resilient to be able to do these things while I basically just go about living my life. Like I’m laying on the couch, and I’m growing a foot. Yeah, hello. Yeah, I mean, I was able, yeah, I was able at the end to just learn to embrace it, essentially, and still complain and still struggle with it. But at the same time, I was able to see the beauty in my own physical body. And it took me I mean, a solid three or four months so like, basically, I would say, almost the entire second trimester but I got there and now looking back any and all pictures of me pregnant. My first thought is like, oh my god, so cute. You know, like, I’m not sitting there like, Oh, I’m so fat and ugly or like, I hated that. I’m not sitting there picking it picking it apart. I don’t think of the negative things. I just look at the pictures and I smile and I’m filled with almost this like peace. Like oh my gosh, I did that

P: well that’s amazing. What did you want for yourself? Are you imagining did you write a whole birth plan or what did it look like for you?

K: I wanted to go as unmedicated as possible. I read this great book one of my my cousin’s wife recommended to me it’s called Ina may’s guide to childbirth and Ina May is this like world renowned midwife. She’s done like, hundreds of 1000s of births at this point. And I liked the book because she is very centered on like home births. Homeopathic, but real people wrote in to her. Most of the people that she had helped give birth and a few people who she had not, and it ranged from. I gave birth at this birth center on a farm in Kentucky. And it was beautiful and I was out in the forest underneath the night sky. I had a C section like it ran the gamut. So it gave me a really good picture of what I could expect I guess. 

And then at the same time she also provided information about like, what is Pitocin what is an induction everything you kind of as a soon to be parent who’s the person you’re going to get you’re the ones giving birth and you might not know these things, because I’ve said many times before on my podcast like our sex education system is trash in our country. It’s really a sad it really is sad but so we go more than half our lives, just not really knowing what is actually going to happen and also not knowing like how to advocate for ourselves. So I think the book taught me a lot about like, okay, here are all of my options. Cool. Here I’m gonna like cherry pick the ones that I would like to use knowing full well it might not go the way I want it to go. And then also, here’s a way that I can advocate for myself. I wanted to go as unmedicated as possible for as long as possible. I was open to the idea of getting an epidural. I wanted to just try my hardest not to and because the pandemic happened towards the end, it changed how often I went to the doctor because they were just trying to keep us pregnant people home as much as possible. So at I think one of my second to last appointments, I said you know I really want to go unmedicated you know, but I was told you know, you go, they said go to the hospital when your contractions are three to five minutes apart if you’re a first timer. And I said, you know, I really don’t want to feel pressure to get any sort of intervention. And one of the nurse midwives she was really, really good. She said, Stay home, stay home as long as you can. Because if you’re in your comfort zone, you’re going to be able to push through more. And you’ll also if you want to avoid any interventions, and being at home is an amazing way for you to do that. So that’s what I tried my hardest to do 

P: Okay so the day your husband was born: how do we know today’s the day? 

K: so my due date was May 12 and all these people texting me on May 12 me my DD one they were texting me happy today, which was like, I didn’t know that was thing but I love that like that’s so fun. So cute. But then of course, other people. So you have the baby like it’s not you know, hold the switch I wish now and my son was born one week Exactly. So later so may 19. But that whole week, basically just people like pregnant so you’re pregnant so as I’m just like, angry typing, like, leave me alone, but I’m really saying yes, I’m so pregnant. Thank you like when you don’t hear from me when there’s like some radio silence. That’s what I’m busy pushing a baby out. Of my vagina. Thank you. 

I was feeling very done. And so I actually I was avoiding it. But I scheduled an induction for Tuesday evening, Tuesday, May 19. The day he was born. I was supposed to go in at like 5pm and I was doing all the things I was eating the spicy foods. I was drinking the raspberry leaf tea. I was sitting on the bouncy ball I was going on walks and nothing was happening. I was walking around one to two centimeters centimeters dilated for a week or two. So like it was happening. 

P: Yeah 

K: progressing. But I was just so over it. And then Monday, the 18th it was the afternoon I was like huh. And again like contractions that’s a whole nother thing where it’s like, what is the contraction? Like how do I know what does the contraction feel like?

P: I kept asking people when they wouldn’t tell me. I’m like yes, I helpful.

K: So many people said, oh, yeah, you’ll know the one person one of my teammates on my kindergarten team. She said honestly, it’s gonna feel like you have to poop. It’s like a poop cramp. And then when you have to push that it literally feels like you’re about to poop your pants. So I was like, Okay, thank you for at least. Yeah, so I was thankful that someone explained it at you know, at least a way that I finally was like, Okay, I think now I might know what you’re talking about. And it was like the early afternoon and you know, essentially my husband was at work but he was on call, essentially. I was  feeling like almost crampy and so I texted him is maybe like 2pm I was like yeah, I think maybe I’m having like having a contraction or two these like okay, and an hour later, they were a little more intense still very far apart. So I texted I was like, 

P: Yeah, 

K: I mean, like if you want to come home now, so I’m not here by myself. That’d be nice. Yeah. So he came home and we did an episode where it was just he and I talking we were talking about like basically my birth story and he said I didn’t know before but on the episode he said that like he was racing home just like speeding home and very nervous, very anxious. And I said I mean, I had no idea when you walked in the door you seem very cool. Like that. So thank you for like providing that energy to me that I really just hung out. I think I was like watching the office laying on the couch for a couple hours. Dinnertime came, they were getting stronger. And I was not hungry obviously because my body had other things in mind. 

But my husband kept saying like, you know you need to eat like you’re going to need the energy like you shouldn’t have a completely empty stomach. You know, like, you don’t need to be there right now. Like let’s eat something, let’s eat something. And I just couldn’t have some fruit. And I was there’s video evidence because I asked him I was like, Look, I just especially you know, COVID were completely by ourselves, which is kind of what we had wanted before anyway, but it felt even more isolated because of COVID I said you know, please take as many videos and photos as I will let you take in the moment so there is a video of me. I think I’m like getting fruit out of the fridge. And again looking at I’m just like, holy crap. I was so pregnant. And I’m like joking and like oh, and like, you know, you need to eat like, you’re going to need the energy like you shouldn’t have a completely empty stomach. You know, like, you don’t need to be there right now. Like, let’s eat something, let’s eat something. And I just couldn’t have some fruit. And I was, there’s video evidence because I asked him I was like, Look, I just especially, you know, COVID were completely by ourselves, which is kind of what we had wanted before anyway, but it felt even more isolated because of COVID. I said, you know, please take as many videos and photos as I will let you take in the moment so there is a video of me. I think I’m like getting fruit out of the fridge. And again, looking at it like holy crap, I was so great. And I’m like joking and like oh, contraction like messing around with him. We just like LOL, cuz five hours later, it was not so funny. And I was just kind of hanging out. It was probably around 10 o’clock, where it got to the point where again, this is on video and that’s I feel like that helps my memory where I no longer was talking while I was having a contraction and instead was just like closing my eyes and trying to breathe through them. I took a shower. And we were trying to wait, maybe until like midnight to go to the hospital just to see like Alright, how long can I push it? How long am I comfortable doing this until I feel like I need to have medical professionals in the room just for my peace of mind. 

We left our house right around like 1245 1am and the hospital was very close. Like less than 10 minutes away. I gave birth. My husband’s in the military. I gave birth on base. It’s actually the same base that he was born at. So 

P: oh Wow. that’s fun

K: Yeah. Yeah. So super cute. And we get there and I’m having contractions like walking to the hospital door. And when we got there I was five centimeters dilated. 

P: well done

K: Oh yeah. So like, I mean, I remember feeling relieved like okay, halfway. Yeah, fine. Okay. And it had been like just under 12 hours. Okay. All right, doing okay, you know, like triage checked in all that stuff. They started to get very very painful for me probably around 4am And I was so exhausted. I was falling asleep in between the contractions. They’re probably only about two minutes apart, one to two minutes apart. Yeah, I was sitting on the exercise ball and my husband was behind me kind of like supporting me. And he was literally having to like, I’d be like, Hmm, like in pain and pain, Awake, awake, asleep. It was almost like narcolepsy. 

And he said in the moment it was scary for him because it was just very strange to have screaming in pain and out like a light but I did that for probably two hours and actually remember, yeah, sucked. But I actually remember I was having bad dreams. Like when I fell asleep, not nightmares, but it was just like, I was not even you know, like was even having pleasant dreams. I would have a contraction, fall asleep and I would I would sleep so hard. And that minute to two minutes, that I would dream and I remember it’d be a bad dream to 

P: Well, that’s gonna make sense, right? I mean, yeah, the life is being squished out of you. Yeah. It’s hard to think of, you know, unicorns, and roses, right? It’s 

K: Yes, yes. And I’m already naturally like, not a unicorny person. So yeah, I was doing it. I had made a playlist in the moment. It was not playing, looking back and I just brought this up with my husband. I asked him I was like, we didn’t have the playlist playing until after I got the after all right. He said, Yeah. And I said, Man, you know, I wish we had thought of it. We were obviously a little busy. But I wish we had thought about it. Because I am very responsive to music. I love music. And I made that playlist, you know, chose the songs that I chose for a reason and most of them were actually like, feel good like 90s Hip hop like dance party songs on purpose to kind of distract me. So I do wish we had had the wherewithal to put the music on but that’s okay. Obviously, we didn’t 

P: my husband and I made a playlist to and then after, you know, my crazy birth story, but after my birth, we laughed at the people who made that playlist. We’re like, Haha, you fools. Who would’ve played that playlist? Not me…

K: yeah. Yeah. Like, whoa, hold on. Let me open my Spotify real quick. Sorry, baby. Hold on one second. 

P: Very funny. 

K: Yeah, so we were we were not mentally in playlists land until afterwards when I got the epidural and it was around closer to like seven or eight. I looked at the nurse and I said I can’t do this anymore. And I was near tears and I because I just was in so much pain and it wouldn’t stop it was for me like I can’t even maybe I could keep going if I could get a break for a second. Yeah, there was no break. And you know, she’s obviously trained and she just said it was so simple, but it was the tone in which she said it and she like met my eyes. And she said yes, you can and I was like, not taking it back. But I was like, okay, like, Okay, thank you like, you’re right. Yes, I can, but I will take that epidural, please. 

So I got an epidural. I had to sit still through two massive contractions as they put the epidural on my back. And I’m like, bruising my husband’s hands because I’m squeezing them so hard because it’s an anesthesiologist. Yeah, and he’s like, Okay, you cannot move you have to stay still, us I’m like, oh, fuck, okay. Yeah, so I’m just like, clenching with all of my night. And then I mean, 20 minutes later, I took a nap. And it was amazing. 

P: Oh, nice. 

K: Yes. My husband says that when I was sleeping. He was you know, sitting there awake. The nurse came in. Like look, I saw him sleeping she said and she turned her down like yep, I knew that’s exactly yeah, that’s what you needed. You just needed to sleep and my son was born 6:36pm So the epidural, definitely, yes. slowed me on down so I bought I mean I lay there and we’re watching the monitor. As I mean, these giant as contractions. I’m just like, Can I have another popsicle, please? You know, I’m just like sitting there. That was like first time ever experiencing medicine that powerful. 

P: Yeah. 

K: And my first time ever being numb from like, the midriff down, which was very strange. And I was trying to explain it to my husband. I was like, No, I literally can’t and not move my legs. Like, my brain is saying like, okay, come on. And I can’t so he said. So he was like You mean if I pick your leg up, it’s going to fall? Yeah, do it. My son Robin. His heart rate was like dipping here and there sometimes. So I was my legs were on the peanut ball, and I would be on my left side and I switched my right side. So he lifted at one almost like a clamshell exercise lifted up one leg like go and it comes crashing down. He’s like, Oh, I guess I told you like it’s cool when it’s like strange and kind of scary at the same time. Mostly cool though. 

I pushed for two hours which flew by, like did not seem like two hours at all. It was almost exactly I think it was like two hours and four minutes. They told me or something like that. And I I always responded well to a deadline. The shift change was coming. The shift change was coming and I loved my nurse. And she made a joke. She was like, alright, like I’m out of here at 730. So what are we doing? And that was probably at like 530 and my son was born an hour later it took a couple pushes to like that’s a you know, that’s a learning curve in itself, pushing out a baby and then pushing out a baby when you can’t feel it. 

P: Yeah, 

K: I did feel that urge of like, Oh, I’m gonna poop. I’m gonna put my pants right now. But I remember telling her like, Hey, I’m not like it feels like I’m about to poop like here we go. We need we need to start but it did take some coaching from her and just like some experimenting to figure out. How do you do this? And especially how do you do it when you cannot feel they gave me like a big mirror on wheels. So using a mirror like being able to see that really, really helped me to have a visual and then that’s also like a motivator because as I saw his head crowning it was like, Oh my gosh, like okay, like, here we go. Here we go. So close. So close. So a birthday came out. Everything was great. Everything’s cool. He had like a 10 on the Apgar. Score, and I was like, yes, that’s my child. And I gave birth to the placenta, no problem. And they were still down there like sewing me up. And I noticed it, but obviously I’m very distracted by my son and really just enjoying that moment. And it was almost like the unspoken thing between myself and my husband where we were both like they’re still there. 20 minutes later, they’re still there. 20 minutes later, they’re still there. That’s not there’s something more more doctors coming into the room. When you are far outnumbered. Yeah, by the medical professionals, never a good sign. 

P: Yeah, no kidding. 

K: And yeah, so we’re both kind of just like looking at each other 

P: wait,  no one’s telling you what’s going on?

 Oh, it took a while for them to say anything. And my husband first was like, hey, whoa, like what’s going on? And they said so like, she’s still bleeding too much for our comfort. You know, like, it’s just more than normal. So we’re trying to maybe see where’s the source of the bleed? They couldn’t find the source of the bleed for probably like the first 30 minutes to an hour. Yeah. And then so in total, I was laying there for two hours pleading 

P: And they didn’t call it hemorrhagin or they did call it hemorrhaging. 

K: So they did call it hemorrhaging by the I would say like, if I had to estimate again, I have very little concept of time and this is also where, because of the blood loss My memory is a little hazy, which really, that’s something that’s like been really hard for me because I wanted to remember this stuff so badly. So it’s been frustrating that because, you know, losing blood just takes that it literally takes everything out of you and it affects your memory. 

P: Remembering your birth is so important because it’s so much a part of your own story too so I took this question about people’s memories of their births to a fantastic OB. Hi, Dr. Matityah. Thanks so much for coming on the show. 

Dr. Matityahu: thanks for inviting me again. I love coming to the show. 

P: Today we’re going to talk about Kayla and hers is actually a story of hemorrhage. Kayla’s disappointed after the birth that she doesn’t have the sharpest memory of everything that happened. How typical is this for after birth experiences

Dr. Matityahu: when you’re lying there. He just pushed out a baby. You’re exhausted. We’re exhausted because now you’re losing even more blood than your normal blood loss from a vaginal delivery. All the sudden you’re launched into a new phase of life. Most of us our brains don’t process everything that’s going on around us. I mean, I think it makes sense that you’d be lying there. You’re looking at your baby. You’re wondering, what are they doing down there for so long? Most of us don’t remember the exact details of our birth I can say that I’ve retold my birth story and my husband basically said no, that’s not what happened. 

K: I don’t remember a whole lot of a lot of my husband a lot to tell me what happened. So like the head surgeon came in because it was a teaching hospital so the head surgeon came in and she said okay, so cervical tear, not abnormal, not ideal, not super normal. And they couldn’t fully confirm where it was and they could not stitch it up. Me laying in the bed like that. 

P: I Wondered why it was so hard to identify where the terror was to this question to Dr.Matityahu. Can you give us any sense of like what you’re looking at after a vaginal delivery, and why it’s so hard to identify as a source of the bleed and one thing I should add is that there were tears she had second degree tearing. 

Dr. Matityahu: So after vaginal delivery, there’s a few different places where you can have bleeding. One is from inside of the uterus or the placenta detached other is there could be a tear on the cervix which is less common but could be a source of bleeding. Could be a tear deeper inside the vagina is causing bleeding that’s hard to see and there could be just bleeding from there the vagina tour. There’s a couple of different places where you can have a tear and or a source of bleeding. And after delivery of that tissue is it stretched or torn? Not always easy to identify exactly where bleeding is coming from because a lot of times there’s a fair amount of blood anyway. After vaginal delivery from the uterus so that bleeding which is normal bleeding, be obscuring or places that might bleeding in addition to that. It makes sense that it would be at times hard to find the exact source of the bleeding. 

K: Jimmy always says yeah, like that one surgeon came in she was like what like, move like what are you guys doing? Like this is and I that I do remember her attitude being not towards me at all towards the other doctors in being like why is she been laying here for this long like what are we doing? So I was told I needed to go to the OR and they would be able to fix it nilar Because they have better equipment and they would be able to tilt my bodies they could actually see to cauterize it basically and so I’m like, okay, as I’m, you know, basically in shock, I just gave birth to a baby. I’m exhausted. I’ve also been bleeding for two hours. I’m really weak. I’m just like, alright, well, I’m like the brakes. Here we go. Yeah. And I remember I do remember being wheeled out of the room and Jimmy is holding Robin as I’m sure he’s internally like really like and I literally just waved like I I was very much in shock but I think I also a little bit was like, let me comfort him like it’s okay. Like, I will see you like it’s okay, casual. It’s fine. See in an hour. 

P: That’s why you’re getting the I’m on the deck of a ship kind of wave. 

K: It’s just like, Fine. Have a great boy. Yeah, so it was about an hour and end up having to cervical tears. So that might have been why there was so much blood and both of them they just could not see them when I was laying in the bed like the way my body was. So what they did have you ever seen like a like an old school meat locker, like those giant hooks and they like have the meat hanging from the giant hooks. 

P: please don’t tell me they hung you upside down? 

K: Yeah. Okay, so I wasn’t upside down but literally, my like, from my lower back down was up in the air if that makes sense. It’s almost like I can’t remember the name of the yoga pose when like your mid back and up on the mat. And everything else 

P: it’s like a shoulder stand. 

K: Yes, yes. Yes. I remember at the time I was just like, this is in sane. 

P: Are they a ladder like I don’t understand how that’s helping. 

K: So they put my legs in even my legs in and they explained everything and was so out of it from I think the blood loss and all of the above that I had them I was like I’m so sorry. Can you tell me please one more time like what you’re about to do? I remember they’re like oh my god for like poor girl. Yeah, like are you okay? So they were like so you have to cervical tears. We cannot access them with your body laying on the table are going to need to lift your body up and then the doctor will be able to access and cauterize them from there. Okay, cool. 

P: Kaila, so they are hung her at a pretty steep incline and the surgeon is on like a stepladder and wondering how that helps with axcess. 

Dr. Matityahu: One reason to put her in that position is maybe maybe her blood pressure was dropping a little bit and that helps her blood flow to her head and her heart number two if the bleeding from the uterus is obscuring whatever you’re able to see inside of the vagina, sort of hanging her little bit upside down might just keep some of the blood in the uterus so that it’s not flowing out as briskly so that you can probably see more of what’s happening in the vagina and the cervix. I agree with them going to the operating room. Usually we don’t wait two hours to take someone to an operating room if they’re if they’re bleeding and we can’t figure it out. Yours will go much faster to the operating room because number one you can give the person more anesthesia so they’re more comfortable and the lighting is better. And we have instruments that you know instruments and additional hands that can sort of help open up the area and get a much better look inside the vagina because most of the time when we’re in the room, it’s us and a scrub nurse and usually hands and sometimes their hands helping but when you’re in the operating room, you can kind of call in more people and you have different instruments in the operating room that we obtained in the delivery room and so you can really issue in the container and really look inside and get a better view of what might be happening. 

K: So So couldn’t feel anything. Thank God completely numb. They gave me like a little shot of morphine to to kind of like make sure I stay chill and not in any pain. And I think she might have been standing like on a stepladder and she had one of the headlamps. It was like 45 minutes an hour max. And there were compression pads like on my legs. 

P: Yeah. 

K: So that was actually really nice like that felt nice and I remember the his anesthesiologist but he wasn’t you know, he’s want to give me the morphine. He was so nice because you know, they sit at your head and it was so nice and he was constantly like, are you okay? Are you cold? Like, please let me know like the second you’re in any pain and I wasn’t I think I even like almost tried to go to sleep. Because I was just like, I’m just gonna close my eyes because I was getting kind of nervous. I was like, yeah, just gonna let me close my eyes. 

But you know, surgery was great. It was unexpected, like emergency hemorrhaging surgery, but I didn’t have to go the pacu they wheeled me back to the delivery room. I had a bad reaction to the morphine. I’m sit Yeah, I’m sitting there talking like talking to Jimmy, talking to the nurse and all of a sudden everything slowed down. I felt like I had just gone to a concert. They’re ringing in my ears. And Jimmy told me I was slurring my speech. Like I was super super drunk.

P: that’s terrifying… good lord. 

K: Yeah. And I remember just saying like, I don’t feel good, but it probably came out like oh no, like it was because I saw their faces like and I knew this is the only other time I vomited, but I knew it was coming. Of course me being like, this shows you let me like get on my feminist stepstool real quick. This shows you just like how ingrained it is in us to take up as little space as possible and to make everything more convenient for everyone else. Because how dare we take up space? Like how dare I puke right after I gave birth. So I’m literally trying to hold it in my hands covering my mouth. And I’m pointing like huh, like it’s about to go down. And just in the nick of time, I’m given a bag and so we’re all good. But then you know, of course they’re really concerned. So they kind of scrambled for a little bit and they found out I had a bad reaction to the morphine and I was pretty out of it. For the next I like the next almost 24 hours. I would fall asleep like while the doctors were talking to me, because I just I couldn’t stay awake and they said you know like fatigue. This type of fatigue is obviously a symptom of your blood loss. 

P: Yeah, 

K: so you’re gonna feel this way for a little while and it wasn’t. It wasn’t ideal, but I do remember probably like 12 hours before we got discharged from the hospital. I started to feel a whole lot better and could actually like keep food down. But it was really those first 48 hours after giving birth. Were just a cluster and kind of like one thing after another, not to mention learning how to breastfeed and try and you know, like all those other things having to do with the baby while I’m also dealing with all of these things of my body. So that was really, it was a really hard time and I think I actually was in shock about the hemorrhaging for a long time and almost in denial to the point where I was like it was so traumatic that I just kind of shoved it away. And I didn’t really come to terms with it until gosh, like almost a year ago when my son was already almost seven months old. When I started to learn more about hemorrhaging and how common it is 

P: really common. Yeah. Yeah. Worldwide, postpartum hemorrhage is the leading cause of maternal mortality. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists report that roughly 11% of maternal deaths in the US are due to hemorrhage. And then a giant share of these deaths are later deemed preventable. The rates in the US have been on the rise, but it’s not obvious what’s driving this increase could be a number of factors. I brought this question to Dr. Matityahu. When I looked on the CDC webpage about birth complications statistics, it looks like the incidence of hemorrhage has increased pretty dramatically in the last 20 years. I’m wondering if this is like a counting issue like it actually hasn’t increased, but we are more aware of it or if something else is going on? 

Dr. Matityahu: It’s a great question. I’m not sure I know that in the last few years we’ve been tested being much more diligent at measuring blood loss after vaginal delivery and C sections are either will even weigh the gause pads to see how much blood they collected.  In the past we used to just eyeball and make an educated guess. I was being a little bit more specific at recording blood loss. So so it could be just an account like a difference in how we’re accounting for the blood loss and how we how we calculate it, or noticing like, Oh, this is much more than we thought it was. 

P: One final note on this:  A lot of things make the list of risk factors for postpartum hemorrhage, including things like lacerations retained placenta instrumental delivery, and some studies suggest that other factors like obesity and age could be contributing factors for the risk of postpartum hemorrhage. Both obesity and age at first birth have been increasing over time. 

K: It’s taken me a while to kind of talk about it without trying to just humor my way out of it and like disregard it because I used to say like, oh my god, you know, like, it’s fine. I still say that but at the same time, I still in my head know how serious it was and how potentially life threatening it really was. And I think that really impacted my initial postpartum experience as well. That was really hard like the baby blues hit me so so hard. Another thing that I wasn’t, wasn’t expecting and also, it’s that thing where you don’t fully understand it until it happens to you and you’re like, Well, God,

P:  it’s experiential for sure. 

K: And I remember when I was in labor, they’re like, Oh, your blood pressure. A little highs is not fair at the epidural, but I was just kind of like, I don’t want to be rude. So I didn’t say I just okay. Thank you. In my head. I’m like I’m in labor. 

P: Yeah, 

K: yes. My blood. Yes. Yes. It is a little high right now. Thank you. Thank you. But then looking back on it. That is one of the signs of preeclampsia and I did not have that. Thankfully, it was kind of you know, it’s a separate issue. Having cervical tears is different than having preeclampsia. But if I was willing to kind of blow it off in my head like, it’s fine. That’s what we all do, especially women be Oh, like that that big, scary things are happening to me. No, no, like that happens to other people. It’s fine. I’m fine. 

P: that’s totally true 

K: it’s still a more extensive change and transformation than you think it is. No matter how much research you’ve done, no matter how many people you’ve talked to, that are how many people have been real and honest with you. You still are not going to fully grasp what it is. Until it’s happening. 

P: it took me 10 months to get into this state. It’s gonna take a while to get back and I think the six week mark, which is the first gynecology appointment Yeah, that’s only the amount of time it takes for your uterus to shrink down to its size. But 1000 Other things have not gone back. Right so 

K: yeah, or and never will potentially. Yeah, yeah, talking about disappointing. I don’t know about you, but my six week appointment was nothing like I thought it was going to be I thought it was going to be very like how are you Yeah, it was not it was literally Alright, let’s see if your stitches have healed. Okay, you’re looking great. What kind of birth control do you want? None…I’m good. I’m not even like, I’m not having sex right now and be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway like I’m so good. And I also know like, the military culture, the stereotype, it’s a stereotype for a reason because it’s true. Well, there’s a lot of babies walking around. So they were pushing extra hard like, Are you sure you don’t want birth control? Are you sure we have the birth to clinic from this time of this time this day this day? And I I had to kind of get like, hey, stop, I’m fine. I’m telling you. I’m fine. I’m really not going to be pregnant in a month from now. I can guarantee you like I’m good again. I know my body. You know, they didn’t ask me like your breastfeeding. Like how’s it going? Would you like to at least talk about that with someone it was it was also a doctor who I had never met before. You know, they’re on a rotation. I had never met them before. So I didn’t necessarily even feel comfortable being like on can we talk to this for a second. It was just so bare bones. 

P: Yeah, 

K: when needed so much more than that and all birthing people need so much more than like, Oh, let me just check your incision site. Let me check your vagina. Okay, here’s a patch. Here’s the pill. See you later you know, like we deserve so much more than that. And the six week postpartum appointment is not a one size fits all deal. That’s really what we’re given. And I remember just be walking out of there and just being like, the fuck, like what just happened? Like that was just not what I expected. 

P: Yeah, it feels like a box checking exercise as a medical front, right? 

K: Yeah, yep, that’s exactly what it was. And that’s exactly what I felt like, like you weren’t even. This was not an individualized personalized appointment. This was my name was on the paper. You checked it. You signed it. And you said Have a great day. Very disappointing…

P: Kayla and I talked a bit about postpartum care. And she said when she went to see her doctor at six weeks, essentially it was a very medical visit it does that surprise you. And do you think that postpartum care is in any sort of transition away from something more medical, there’s something more holistic,

Dr. Matityahu: I would  like to think that it’s going towards something more holistic, and There’s, I think more of a trend toward really connecting and having compassion and being empathic and you know, asking people how they’re doing and so I think that there’s much more of a trend that way especially in my hospital, and that’s kind of sad to hear that you know, she she wanted more and wasn’t wasn’t able to express herself, or talk to her experience with her doctor. 

P: It was disappointing and she said, she felt exhausted and overwhelmed and sad at times and there’s really nowhere to put those feelings. 

Dr. Matityahu: You’re exhausted anyway after a vaginal delivery, you know, or any delivery, you know, between the hormone changes. You’re up all night, all of us lose. Load when we deliver and that’s a normal part of delivery and then leaving a significantly larger amount of blood that makes her even more exhausted. I don’t know about you, but when I’m exhausted, my emotions are all over the place. I cry much more easily when I’m exhausted like that. And so all makes sense to how it just all of the exhaustion and the life change and not sleeping and low blood count. I mean, it all leads to just being tired and sad. And I mean, it’s hard and so it’s even harder when you don’t even have you know, when you’re anemic. You don’t even have enough blood volume to keep you focused and awake. It makes sense that it would be incredibly hard for her. I feel terrible. 

P: This postpartum thing is really a tricky issue. It seems like because it’s more than medical 

Dr. Matityahu: 100% and the hard part is we have 15 minutes. Yeah, to do it all to check in you know, to check someone medically to check in with them. If it’s someone that has never met her before. They’re probably looking to see okay, you lost a lot of blood. How’s your blood? How are you feeling? Are you bleeding anymore? Is everything okay? Like, medically Are you like, okay, or do I have to do anything? And then I think sometimes people forget like, wow, I lost a ton of blood or going you know, lying on the table for two hours. Like when we look at the note that’s not always we noticed or what was obvious to us, like, we’ll see. Okay, there’s blood loss and now you’re doing Fine, thank goodness, but we don’t know the emotional journey that someone has taken. Unless we’re someone that’s going to ask and then sometimes, if you’re like, Well, I have 15 minutes. I don’t want to get into that. I don’t have the time and then what am I going to do about it anyway? I think some people will consider approaching physicians and providers and midwives. Sometimes we forget that just asking and validating and expressing our compassion about what they’re going through is sufficient. Like, that’s what people need. And that doesn’t take long. A lot of people are afraid to do it because they don’t realize that it’s not going to take time that they think it’s gonna take and the impact that has is huge. 

P: So now, Robin is 18 months, 

K: he’ll be actually 19 months and about in less than two weeks. Oh my gosh, what 

P: so what are his tricks? What can he do? 

K: he’s fluent in four languages. 

P: Can he walk? 

K: He started Yeah, I started walking around 11 months. Oh, wow. Yeah. So he was walking by his first birthday. I mean, I feel like I can’t remember the last time I saw like it walk. He just runs everywhere now. Like 

P: oh my god, that’s awesome. 

K: That’s yeah, that’s so fast. I genuinely can’t remember. Like he does not walk. And he’s really heavy footed do so you just have to think oh, here comes Robin.

P:  Very cute. Feel thanks so much for coming on the show. This is such a great story and I so appreciate you sharing it. 

K: And thank you so much for having me. It’s always nice to talk about my birth story a little bit more because it always just gives me a clearer perspective about it each time I bring it up out loud and it’s, you know, it’s not really something I talk about that often so it’s been nice to kind of just revisit and think about how it was and it’s so funny, because on some level, it almost feels like a dream. Yeah, you know, like, What do you mean like he’s always been here? Yeah. Yeah, like he’s just been around forever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The best. The best reality because I don’t know. Yeah, like, I don’t know what I would be doing. If I didn’t have him, which is really wonderful to think about because it just makes me think of like, well, then it’s so I don’t know what I would doing but in that case, it’s so amazing that I have him. 

P: Yeah, that’s awesome.