Month: May 2021

Stacey: Yeah, my name is Stacy Webb and I’m from Sydney, Australia.

P: Lucky you. Oh my god,

S: it’s a it’s a beautiful place on earth.

P: Yes, It is right. Wow, that’s cool. So, how many kids do you have Stacey,

S: I have four kids in total, I have an eight year old a six year old in two and a half year old twins.

P: Wow, that’s a busy house

S: very chaotic.

P: So before you had those kids, I’m imagining you had some idea of what pregnancy would be like, what did you think it would be like,

S: I guess, I assumed that you know you get pregnant, and you would see a midwife throughout pregnancy, in my case here you’d see a midwife at the hospital, and then when it was time to have a baby, you would go to the hospital, maybe experience a bit of pain and then you’d have a baby.

P: So, Pretty straightforward.

S: Yeah, and any my sense I always thought if you ended up in a cesarean, that there may have been problems throughout the pregnancy, and really, so I guess in my mind cesarean was very it was never the front part of a conversation when it came to a pregnancy and giving birth as well unless it was discussed throughout.

P: Yeah, I think I think I’m the same I think I thought as like a last ditch effort or I don’t know like I just thought it wouldn’t happen to me. You’re setting us up for the story once you let’s, I’m interested to hear. So, with the first pregnancy was easy to get pregnant.

S: Yes I, we weren’t actively trying. My husband and I, at that point in time in our lives. And so it was a surprise pregnancy I guess some muck around and say it was a love pregnancy, but nonetheless, you know, we had spoke about children, it was just any awkward a lot of speeches voted be a little bit later so I was about 28 when I got pregnant with my first, it was a very smooth, pregnancy, you know, really didn’t feel like there was any issues at all. So my midwife, appointments, and everything was always awkward. And so, again like nothing when it came to giving birth. It was always okay, a, you know, a vaginal birth, and it was going through the pain options in regards to epidurals and things like that, but a C section was never really discussed, no real issues throughout the pregnancy that arose, I just then stayed with a midwife, which was also very lovely because, you know, it was also very calming.

P: That sounds lovely so it’s gonna take us to the first birth take us to that day. How do you know this is the day what’s going on.

S: I was coming up to being 42 weeks pregnant with my first

P: Wow

S: I was overdue. Yes, that was when I spoke about induction they, I was, you know, if everything was safe was happy to try and wait as long as, as long as possible, but then again I didn’t really know much, I just thought, okay, at some point. I knew that they would induce me and I would have a baby, I had a scan to check how the baby was. And at that point they said oh look, the fluid, and I apologize if I’m wrong, because the amniotic fluid, fluid around the baby was getting low. As I was approaching the 42 weeks that having an induction needed to happen. So I had that scan in the morning and they said in the afternoon you’re, you’re coming into be admitted and we’re going to induce you, I wasn’t really fully aware that that day was going to be the day when it was going to happen.

P: Did you not have any contractions or anything.

S: No, no nothing at all. She just wanted to say that my husband was working that day so I called him up and said, Look, this afternoon is apparently the day that we’re going to go in and they’re going to induce me, so we went into the hospital in the afternoon and got admitted, and they said for me to be induced they needed to use the Foley bulb. Yeah, so when it came to doing that my cervix was too high and they needed to manually bring it down. And that

P: that sounds comfortable.

S: Yeah. And they never really fully explained it and I think I was in a state of shock that I normally I would, I’m a very inquisitive woman, and I would ask a lot of questions, and I felt like I asked questions and on reflection I probably didn’t ask as much as I should have, you know, I asked you know, would I be able to have pain relief and they said yes, but the doctor had come in to do the manual, bringing down of the cervix, but they didn’t give me the pain relief, and so they did that without an I was in excruciating pain. I remember telling my husband going. If this isn’t even labor yet I don’t even know if I could go through labor in the birth because I, I was in so much pain. To be honest, it was, it was extremely traumatic for me because it wasn’t something that was expected, I was telling them that I was in pain, and I was kind of given the thing of well you have pain relief, but I kept saying to him, I don’t think I’ve had anything, you know, like you’ve given me something to breathe but it’s not doing anything to me. It was because it wasn’t turned on.

P:  Oh my god,

S: yeah. And so, I’m saying to the midwife midwife that was in the room and the doctor who’s bringing down this cervix manually that you know I’m in pain, please stop it and I just felt like I wasn’t really seen or heard and I was kind of dismissed, until another midwife came in and realized that the pain relief wasn’t turned on so she you know immediately stopped everything can to do that but in my mind, it was kind of already done the damage had already been done, I was, you know just still extremely shocked and traumatized with that.

P: To learn more about what happened to stacy, I took this question to an OB. Hi, thanks so much for coming on the show doctor Dr. Matityahu will you introduce yourself and tell us where you work

Dr. Matityahu: I’m happy to introduce myself and thanks, Paulette for inviting me on the show. So my name is Dr. Deb Matityahu my patients call me Dr. Deb and I am an OB GYN at Kaiser in Redwood City, part of the Permanente Medical Group, and I’ve been there for about 18 years. Another point of interest. I also have a nonprofit in Kenya, it’s called Beyond fistula, and we take care of women who have severe childbirth injuries so women who have prolonged labor and pushing and have end up with internal damage and sometimes causes injury to the baby. And so I work with a fistula surgeon in Kenya, and he does the repair and then my organization does vocational training educational scholarships and business grants and training for women, after they’ve survived, what’s called obstetric fistula.

P: Wow, that’s super cool,

Dr. M:  it’s a rare complication for childbirth at this point. Yeah, in the US, but not, not in areas where women’s health care is overlooked.

P: Yeah. Wow, that’s amazing. Well thanks so much for coming to talk to us today this will be, I think these issues are more common that our guest today that we’re talking about. So when Stacey goes into get induce the doctor says her cervix is too high, it has to be manually lowered. Do we know what that means

Dr. M: I’m going to just try and guess what that means since clearly I wasn’t there, early on before you’re fully in labor before you’ve had a lot of contractions, the cervix and the uterus are a little bit high so when we go to check you meaning we’re putting our fingers inside and we want to feel to see if the cervix is dilated, the cervix can be high up in the vagina or even sort of pushed a little bit back because of the way the uterus is growing. And so early on before you really are in active labor, it can be hard to essentially reach your cervix and get a finger up inside to check your cervix, and in order to do the Foley balloon. What we’re essentially doing is we’re putting a catheter up through the cervix so the cervix has to be dilated, a little bit so we want to at least be able to get a finger or two, up into the cervix, and then feed a catheter that has a balloon on the end, one to the catheter is all the way in the cervix you inflate the balloon and it just mechanically stretching open your cervix for you so that you can have an early induction without, without medication to cause contractions, you know just stretching your cervix will eventually cause contractions. So, from what you’re saying on Stacy, it sounds like it was really hard to reach the cervix. And when that happens. Sometimes what we’ll do is we’ll try and put a finger behind or inside the cervix and pull the cervix down closer, closer towards us, like sort of pulling it forward and try and get the other finger in so we can feed a Foley balloon or Foley bulb into the cervix, and it can be incredibly painful and it sounds like for her it was really painful and really traumatic.

S: So that had happened, where they then, you know, finally brought it down, and you know they did the induction and everything sort of was then going to plan, you know I was then starting to get contractions because of the inducement, I did say yes to an epidural and so that happened as well, which I wanted, especially at that point as well. I got up to eight centimeters, but during that time, especially towards the end because it had been go for quite a long while, I think at that point in time from the beginning of, of the inducement, after the cervix had been brought down until the point where they said no this isn’t working, would have been about 20 hours.

P: Oh my god

S: And, yeah, you know, they’re probably, you know, gave me all these things in between but I just honestly don’t remember, because my main focal point was, was being so traumatized at the beginning, and they said that I wasn’t progressing well enough, or fast enough. And that a emergency C section needed to happen and I, I feel like a little bit of the wait was in hopes to obviously not have food in your stomach when when going into surgery and things like that,

P: are they taking you because the baby’s heart rate is reacting or is it something wrong with the baby or go on understand like what yeah happening fast enough means

S: yes….And that’s the thing I don’t, I don’t really remember too much in my mind, I felt like everything was going okay, in my mind, I felt like the baby’s heart rate was going well, and again when I’m asking these questions, I’m not really being told much, and I’m also in a state of shock. My husband’s in a state of shock, because again there was no talk of a cesarean and so we’re all thinking why all the sudden, now we have an experience so you know when I’m thinking, you know, these people are professionals they definitely know more than me when it comes to giving birth and having a baby, and you know if they think that this is the safest option, you know, they must be right. And so I ended up having an emergency surgery and at the end, and it wasn’t like a rushed process like okay, we’ve got to rush through because the baby’s in danger. It was still, you know, as I said we waited quite a while before I could go in, that was the birth of my first child.

P: I’m so sorry that happened to you that just sounds like the word that comes to mind is manhandled, whether they were men or not

S: Yeah, no, that really was

P: they were not taking you into account in a way that you would want to be and I’m, and I also relate to the deference to vertical authority like I assume they know what they’re doing. So, I could just easily see that happening to people and I’m so sorry that happened that just it sounds traumatizing,

S: I didn’t really get to have a debrief, as to why the cesarean needed to happen, especially that point, there was nothing to say, you know, look, Stacy. The reason why we chose a cesarean and to do it this way is because of all these have been, you know, it wasn’t just as progressing, you know, fast enough, especially afterwards it was really trying to push me out the door, I’d never had surgery before besides this cesarean I’d never really been in hospital for anything to have a cesarean and it was extremely scary to me, although this is Erin was going to happen, just knowing that I was going to be supported and I guess you know, held in a sense to go you know you’re not alone. We’re here with you I really feel like I got that and from having a very nice, lovely easy pregnancy, it really put a sour taste in my mouth, that that was the birth that I got in the end,

P: God, no kidding. What is failure to progress, how do we measure that and is it reliable, what does it mean

Dr. M: that is a great question, before I even answer that. What I’m hearing about Stacy’s delivery is that there just wasn’t really great communication and communication is so important, because knowledge is power, and if you don’t know what’s happening to your body and you’re just experiencing pain you’re just being put through a process and you don’t understand what’s happening. It can be scary, it’s painful and if there’s not a lot of communication or poor communication it makes it much, Much worse I mean it sets someone up for really having a traumatic experience and and people can carry that for a really long time, and so I just wanted to put that out there and as far as failure to progress, we pretty much presume that you’re in active labor when you’re about four centimeters dilated and you’re having regular contractions and at that point, there’s a sort of a standard normal curve that we expect people to generally follow, like how they progress in labor for us to say that it’s a normal progression and that things are going well and so about a centimeter or so an hour in our dilation, If you’re not dilating and progressing as we expect, we look to see are you contracting well enough, we have ways to measure the strength of the contractions we can give you Pitocin to improve your contractions strengthen quality and frequency, you know, and we’re constantly checking and yes we checked by feel, you know, any OB GYN can tell you how many centimeters, their fingers are apart because we’ve checked so many cervixes. So we check and we see you know are you four centimeters are You five are you six are things are things progressing, every hour or two or three, if there’s no change in the call dilation effacement is helping the services and station is how far down the baby’s head comes, if there’s no change in those three parameters with what we can measure as appropriate frequency and strength of contractions, then we say something’s holding up this baby and we call that failure to progress because there’s been no progression in 234 hours, and usually leading up to that you’re doing some interventions to maybe give Pitocin and try and increase the force of the contractions maybe you’re putting in a catheter to measure the actual strength of your contractions just to see that we’re doing everything to get this baby down and out, and if nothing happens, then at that point we say okay it’s been three, four hours. Let’s, let’s talk about another way to get this baby out and that means C section, and often when this is happening, like you had said like there’s, there’s not this urgency that we would have if the baby’s heart rate is going down and we’re doing a C section emergently because of a baby in distress, when you have lack of progress with dilation, a effacement or station, yeah we we watch get Pitocin. We check the baby and often the baby’s doing fine. There’s no distress on the part of the baby, you know, once you have a discussion with the couple and you say, there’s no progress we’re trying this we’re trying that, you know we’re trying everything we can and the baby’s not coming down on its own, and it’s been a number of hours, and we should proceed to C section. And so then you ideally do the C section. Shortly after that, but it’s not urgent, so it can wait.

P: How was your daughter was fine.

S: She was perfectly fine she was. She was 8 lb baby, she was. She was beautiful and healthy. Nice still beautiful and healthy. Yep.

P: So how was it when you got home after the C section and taking care of your first baby,

S: it was really, it was really rough. I was in a lot of pain. And I again I wasn’t really given a lot of pain relief afterwards as well. And I just felt like it was a really rough recovery and I had troubles with breastfeeding and I really wasn’t feeling like I was getting the support in that. And so it just really felt like everything that I thought on what motherhood was, I just felt like I really wasn’t told the real truth, or really, or maybe I just didn’t want to understand the real truth beforehand and it was a bit, it was a big wake up call for me.

P: Yeah, the breastfeeding is also really tricky because it’s portrayed as a must, and everyone can do it.

S: Yes,

P: I think that’s not true, I think. Not everyone can do it and not everyone produces enough milk and your kids latch well, like there’s just a million things that make that interaction really hard and so it’s so glossing over the difficulties to say everyone should and everyone will.

S: Yeah,

P: because not everyone can

S: Yeah, I really, in my mind I wanted to be, you know, the perfect mom and there’s there’s no now obviously I know there’s a perfect mom is easy in so many different forms, but I felt like I had to breastfeed and if I wasn’t I was failing. When I was introducing formula and she didn’t end up being on formula full time, I really had a hard trouble mentally transitioning to that. And when I was reaching out for help I really didn’t feel like it was there until quite some months later and then I just kind of felt like it’s too late now, like wanting to come earlier. I kind of had that bit of a mentality of well I don’t want you to help me out. At that point in time and, and, you know I’ve done this by myself already and, you know, I’ve been asking for help for so many months and no one will help me, and I don’t want to forget there wasn’t that person’s fault who actually came out to help me. And she, she, you know, I thought bad, but just letting it all out then but I guess it was that no one had listened to me. and I guess it’s coming also from the birth, and having no one listened to me, I just didn’t want to do one of our burning one by then. Yeah,

P: so that sounds hard but she’s eight now right she’s,

S: she is.

P: What’s she into?

S: She’s a very creative and creative soul and she loves drawing and reading and really using creative, making creative art as well as dancing around the house so she’s just.

P: That’s cool. So now, given that you’ve had this hard time with the first one, what happens the second time do you and your husband have a discussion where you think we’ll blow past this or. Let’s keep having kids or has that happened.

S: Yes, so we had discussed, we will have another child. And I knew then that I felt like I knew I would be able to speak up more, you know, I knew what had sort of happened throughout the first time, and especially obviously then having a cesarean and I knew that, you know, in the possibility of persevering could happen next. So we had a discussion to have a second child, but I ended up falling pregnant before we originally had planned so we had another love baby, In a sense, and so, throughout that pregnancy, I really felt like I was becoming more aware of my body, I would be more of an advocate for myself and really speaking up for myself so throughout that pregnancy was still a very good healthy pregnancy, and I had some spoken up that I would like to try for a VBAC for a vaginal birth after some cesarean, and so the midwife that I saw throughout that pregnancy was an amazing, amazing midwife who really listened to me and took into account what happened throughout my first pregnancy. We had extra scans to, I guess, check the scar and all of that type of stuff throughout pregnancy, towards the end of the pregnancy, my goal was to avoid any induction if possible, because I felt like that would give my body, a better chance to be able to have a successful VBAC, , I ended up with her being about 41 weeks pregnant when I actually went all spontaneous labor.

P: Good, good

S: So, yes, so that was a completely different experience. I was asleep when I was feeling, the pains of of labor. I’d never experienced the slow, the slow part of it at the beginning so I’ve woken up and had pains and, you know, the night before because it’s it was around Easter time and we have a little Easter Show here, where we took our eldest there and I bought a couple of chocolate showbags and that night I just ate all the chocolate from the show. I got so super threw up so I thought when I woke up and I was getting a little stunning paper, I thought it was because I was hungry because I’d thrown up everything the night before. So I got in, you know, some little biscuits and I’m sitting there like a little mouse eatingmy at my biscuits hoping that that would ease this, you know, little needle in my stomach, and it didn’t it sort of, you know, after it would come in waves and I thought oh, is this the start of what contractions feel like because I had no idea. And I had a little app that would let me know how many minutes apart that these waves of feelings were coming in. And as each time it would come was getting a little bit more intense, a little bit more intense. So then I thought, oh well, okay, this is actually contractions.

And so when it came to a point where I felt like I you know we’re standing over the bed, taking really deep breaths for each contractions was when I woke up my husband, we’d always sort of joked throughout the pregnancy that you know this time, when it came time to have the baby would probably be during the night where I’d have to tap him on the shoulder to wake up so that sort of had actually happened And so we got, I got my daughter in the car and my mom was going to meet us at the hospital to take my eldest, we had set off, and was driving. So we, we were traveling, and we’re going down a very big hill so we can see that down towards the bottom of a hill that a police car or highway car had pulled out and was driving in front of us, and we sort of had by that time managed to be right behind the highway car and they must have seen us going a little bit fast like when I say look we fast, we went traveling extremely fast but we would have, you know, been a couple of Kay’s, maybe over the speed limit. And this, this highway car is driving extremely low, so where we’re in a 15 Kilometer belt probably driving 30 in front of us and I and it’s a one one lane road each way and also to my husband said not this isn’t happening, like, pull him over you like you get you put your high liens on and attract him to pull over because we aren’t driving 30 Ks to the hospital, this isn’t working, and I’m saying usually between contractions, and I’m a police officer myself. So the place folks that had pulled over and banned him you know when he’s Everything okay and I said all Amin labor, you’re going too slow, too slow in front of me and he’s like oh do you want to call an ambulance said no I’m a police officer myself I just want to get to the hospital so he said, Okay, follow me. And so he drives in front of me in front of us, I should say, with, with his lights on and wages driving behind him so you know when we were driving and I said to my husband, he’ll pull over soon and asked me to go in the car with him, because it’s obviously a lot safer. And sure enough, a little bit down the road, he pulls over and says I you know my supervisor says you need to come, come in the car with me, so I can get you to the hospital, quicker rather than you guys follow me. So, in between contractions and getting out of the car and getting in the highway car. I’ll try and find, you know, a piece of towel in the backseat and I was like I’m not a cat, it’s fine.

I was like the last thing I want. And so I went into the highway car and we took off.

P: This is made for TV movie by the way

S: it was it was. And and we were chatting in between, you know, about both are works of sleep I’ve been in the place, and we’re having a bit of a chat while I’m in between contractions on the way to the hospital and at that point in time, I was very vocal when midwives were coming in and stuff that you learned, I would like to try for a VBAC, and if anything keys have happening throughout the pregnancy, we want you to be upfront with me because I felt like I was being lied to, or information was being withheld. I wasn’t really going to take that in my birthing room I was very really stood up for myself, because I didn’t stand up for myself in the first one. And I had an amazing lovely midwife who was very supportive with me wanting for the back and it was really a great advocate for me as well I really extremely value her…this birth was also very different. I really felt seen and heard throughout it all, every time they’d come into the room, they must have seen my shock of are you going to come and tell me something’s wrong because that’s what always happened the first time you’re going to come in and tell me. We’re not progressing enough, I always felt like I was rushing against a clock, whereas this time they’re coming and going. Look, it’s fine. Calm down. The baby’s fine, you are fine we’re just checking, which is doing a checkout was really a lot different experience. I then ended up having the midwife come in and say, Look, we want to check your cervix to see how it was compared because of what’s happened last time. And when they checked it, it was still high, where they said we need to manually bring it down. And so I started to become in that panic again. And that same midwife has sort of come out says look, you’ve got it on here in this gig writing must be given pain relief we will make sure we give you pain right well the doctor even comes in to touch you, as I said it was extremely different experience because they were sitting there listening to me, calming me down and actually take into account my previous birth trauma into trying to ease any trauma retriggering reactivating in anything else throughout this one so I was given pain relief, it still hurt a little bit but definitely not as bad or as traumatic,

 I had that at the cervix is brought down and the labor was progressing really well, so everything was going really well I said yes to an epidural again. And so I had that. And then I actually had the midwife coming and goes, Stacy I actually have your notes from your first birth, and the reasons why you had a C section, and she listed a bunch of reasons. She actually gave me the debrief that I never had the first time. And so it gave me a little bit of closure, the epidural was starting to wear off a little bit so I could actually feel when the contractions were coming so I knew when to push but I wasn’t feeling the pain of when I pushed if that made sense, which was, to me I actually quite enjoyed that.

 But again as the midwife said when it came time to push Stacy at this moment you are like a first time mom because you’ve never had to,

P: Yeah…

S: in terms of your first time on giving birth vaginally you have never had to do this before so I was listening to their cues as to winter portion and when it came to the, I realized that I could, you know, no so you know if you can feel it coming on you can also let us know which I do, and I ended up having a vaginal birth with my second daughter,

P: whoo. Triumph

S: Yes, yes, I had a very small tail, she was eight pound baby. And I guess a really different experience. After I had my second daughter, and then for both pregnancies my first and second, we didn’t know the sex of the baby until the baby was born so when it came to having my first, my husband had told me it was a girl, and, and for my second, because the baby was brought immediately onto my chest, I was able to look and I told my husband that we had another girl, so it was a nice experience to be able to do that as well. And then also very different experience from the cane moving from the birthing switch to the maternity ward. When you have the cesarean and you go into a bit of a recovery room, and then you go into, you get wheeled in a bit so they’re like okay we’re going to the material now and okay and I sort of sat down on the bed because I used to being wheeled and I didn’t realize, oh, actually yes I can walk and I’m here I am pushing, you know, in the, in the little cribs and I’m pushing the crib to the maternity ward I was such a real different experience, it was just, it blew my mind at how different just even that part of the birthing experience was so

P: interestingly between your first and your second your first got. So, immediately medicalized when you got to the hospital.

S: Yeah,

P: like all your control was taken away and it seems like with your second, that it’s very much in the spirit of, you know, this is not a medical procedure you’re giving birth and you’re capable of doing that…it sounds lovely

S:yeah and it’s yeah, it really was and you know they were listening to me and if there were any problems come up they’ll actually sit and talk to me about it and letting me know you’re telling me information because it’s relating to me my own body and, and my birth of my child so it was such a different experience that I really felt I really felt happy with that somehow that I actually really got to speak up for myself and that I also was seen and heard throughout that birthing experience regardless of what the result ended up with being in terms of a vaginal or cesearean birth,

P: that sounds awesome, was the recovery much easier for the second one.

S: Yes. The recovery was much easier. Yes, it was a lot more of a smoother transition, I still was having trouble breastfeeding, but I was getting help from the beginning, which, in my mind made things easier. And also I wasn’t so harsh and so critical of myself on wanting to be this perfectionist mother so really made that postnatal experience extremely after so much more easier to me,

P: yeah that all sounds lovely.

S: Yes, I have quite a few months afterwards, though I was really I guess I started to feel really harsh on my body, postnatal body, I’d have been somewhat of a reasonably fit person before my first and got myself back to a stage where I was happy with my body before I got pregnant with my second, and we were actually planning my husband are actually planning our wedding, when I fell pregnant with my second, we’re in the middle of that where I ended up being married when I was about five months pregnant with my second so after I had my second it just felt like it was harder for me to get back to a state within my body that I was happy with. And so I was really harsh on myself for that. I just started to become really sort of reclusive within myself I avoid going out unless I really needed to with my children because I didn’t have any clothes that fit me and the ones that did I wasn’t really happy with how I looked. I was used to baby wear a lot with my second, I would happily go out. If I was babywearing because I felt like it was covering my body, so I felt like I was able to face the public world because I was somewhat covered, so it really took me a long time mentally to understand what my body was going through, no one really spoke to me about that and no one really said, your body may take a little while to adjust to things, just, just the way I guess you know how your, your stomach is after you have a baby and it’s very normal and natural whereas I thought you had to get back into your post baby state, you know, I don’t think that now, but at that time I did and I was really harsh was awful why I never did that. And, and because of that I really affected how I do things as well, so

P:  that’s super hard and I, I had a conversation with someone yesterday where I realized that bounce back is like a trigger word for me, I think that’s a term that’s commonly used and you’re imagining like I will have the body I had when I was 20 before I was pregnant. Even though your body has been used for the better part of a year to grow a human being.

S: that’s right…That’s the emphasis from other people like, Oh you had your baby six months ago. So, why do you still, you know, like you still have a stomach, and it’s like well, because that’s how my body is right now like and why do you care, but that’s how my body is

P: Stacy was uncomfortable with her postpartum body and people making comments about her, not getting her body back, or quickly enough after the birth. What are your thoughts about that what is postpartum. What is a woman’s postpartum body is supposed to look like,

Dr. M: I don’t think the phrase, get your body back is helpful for anyone, because you’re right, we don’t get our body back we have a different body we have, you know, for a mom, and our body changes and it changes pretty much forever. You know you can get stronger you can get tone you can do different things but your body does not go back to pre pregnancy, state, and never does. And I think the more that we can embrace that and be okay with that, the better off we are. This just adds to another way that we as moms judge ourselves and feel bad about ourselves, it’s emotionally exhausting having a child, and then you’re feeling guilty that am I doing a good enough job, how is my breast milk it was my baby on the right schedules aren’t they’ve eaten the right stuff is the diaper material. The right one is, do I have the right bottles, you know is my body look the way I’m supposed to look. And now my husband wants sex like I’m so f’ing tired that like I don’t even want to have that, why aren’t I, as good as I was before. And so I think that there’s a lot of judgment that we put on ourselves instead of just embracing the fact that I’m different, I’m a mom and I’m not going to bounce back overnight and I’m not going to look like my teenage self, and if I do okay maybe in the future you will but that shouldn’t be the goal for the first year after you’ve given birth.

When I gave birth to my first Cindy Crawford was giving birth to her first and there was this huge write up with her in the newspaper where she was interviewed all these beautiful pregnancy photos and all these postpartum photos and someone made a comment about how quickly she bounced back. And what I love about her and why I just love her now, is that she said, I want to be very clear, it is my job to look good. And so my full time job after giving birth was to go to the gym and get my body to be more tone and ready for camera again but for a normal mom, who’s not a model that’s not their full time job and shouldn’t be this should not be the expectation of a normal Mom, this is the expectation of me because it is my career. But if this wasn’t my career I would not look like this, because it’s exhausting and it’s a full time job to look like this so I was like yay Cindy, I’m not a model and so I’m not going to look like that. I’m not going back to quote unquote my body, I have a baby, I’m going back to work and just trying to survive and be the best mom I can be without feeling horrible about myself so that, that being said, let’s, let’s now go back to, yes, our bodies change and what can we do about it. And there’s a whole bunch of changes that happen, you know, one is especially if you have vaginal delivery, things are really loosened stretched out down there. And so, you know there’s a lot of talk about the benefit of doing cables and pelvic floor strengthening and in our hospital and I’m hoping it’s getting more common, just across the country. We have a handful of pelvic floor physical therapists, these are women who are really focused on the pelvic floor and the vaginal tissue and can help you with exercises to get things a little bit tighter and toned and stronger, you know, so that you don’t have back pain so you, your core feels more stable. So the vagina doesn’t feel so overstretched. Sometimes you’re leaking urine afterward, you know during pregnancy. And so just strengthening the vaginal musculature, can help decrease or stop any of the urinary leakage. So there’s a lot of changes that the body goes through. And there’s a lot that we can do for it.

S: I took me caught a few years to sort of get my head around that, which thankfully I did, I understood within my head that my body is different, and I was still very active and healthy and and reasonably fit, and had gotten myself to a weight that I was happy with however my body was a completely different shape to what it was before children, and I was very accepting of that and it didn’t worry me regardless of the weight I was very happy with my body, so it was at a really good stage in my life, but it took me quite a few years afterwards,

P: you’re responding to every cue around you. It makes total sense why you would think that it’s just like, I think it’s unfair and unrealistic expectation that people place on Mothers, that you should bounce back, you know, now looking back right even for you I’m sure looking back I think that was crazy.

S: Yeah, it was crazy and and even looking back it was always. the focus on how much weight you lost, or what weight you’re at, rather than how your body feels, and for me like I do, I did a bit of running and a bit of weight so it was like okay I’m really happy that I was able to run at this, you know, at this pace that was more important to me than what my weight was, and so that was such a really big eye opener for me which I’m really glad I got, I got to that point.

P: Yeah and actually very useful to have done the for twins, I’m guessing.

S: Yes, yes, my husband and I had discussed on having a third child, when it came to the twins, we have planned, and we’re actively trying for our third baby when I fell pregnant. It was expected that took me about five months to get pregnant,

P: did that feel like a lot or you were okay with it?

S: It felt like a lot. Yeah, it felt like a lot, because the first few times, yeah I felt pregnant without Yeah, so, but I also knew I had not long before that had a back injury. And so I thought maybe it’s just because I have been injured, not long ago, and then we

P: I can’t wait to hear when we, when we found out we had twins.

S: And so, with us, are deciding on having a third child we had decided that we would trade in one of our cars and buy a new car, my husband had been researching on a car that he wanted to buy with our trade in and that I don’t even know what type of car was but it was a five seater car I know that. And so we booked in for an ultrasound, and the technicians, rubbing the jelly on my stomach and doing all of that and so suppose the screen he goes oh what do you see and I said oh, oh, there’s a baby in, and there’s my bladder I thought because you have a full bladder when you have ultrasound, and he’s like no it’s not. Oh no, why What do you mean I was so blase about it he’s like there’s one baby, and there’s a heartbeat and shows her how many guys, and what you think is your bladder is actually another sack, and he’s another baby, and he’s like you’re having twins, and I thought he was joking, I just and I had that nervous that nervous laugh around with me so I was like smirking because that was just correction I was just like are you kidding me. Are you joking. No, that’s not right. No, you’ve got some check up on your, on your thing there i My husband hadn’t spoken at that point I think he was still in shock. And the first thing you said when he was able to talk was like I guess I’m not buying that car then, but it was obviously also still a blessing. That’s how we didn’t buy that car because it would have needed to trade it in again and

P: that’s awesome.

S: Yeah, so, so my twins are fraternal twins, what’s known in, in Australia, he’s DCDA twins. So again, we didn’t try and find out the sex of our twins until birth as well

P: can you use a midwife if you’re having twins, that seems like the more complicated thing,

S: twins will always is a high risk pregnancy so therefore, I had to see an obstetrician for each appointment instead of a midwife, I had said that I would like to try for another vaginal birth with the twins, and it was purely to me just thinking how the recovery was afterwards that it might be a third of might be easier on me if I had a vaginal birth with having to handle two babies at once. The doctors a bit hesitant at the beginning thinking, you know, of wanting to book me for the C section how I was always also pretty adamant on myself that I’m not walking in the C sections so this is what we’re doing, but I’m also open to the fact that I could end up in a C section

so when I got to the thirty seven weeks I’d seen the doctor again. And we had spoke about, you know, when would be the rough time point that we would be looking at, you know, to having the babies in terms of inducement if needed. Obviously for me I was wanting to avoid inducement unless it was medically necessary for the babies, but I had a very healthy pregnancy, and I was still very active and doing things throughout the pregnancy that if I haven’t gone into labor by the time I’m 39 weeks, I will consent to an induction. So I hit 39 weeks pregnant and I was still pregnant, but at that point. Especially that last week, I was, I felt like my body was having a really hard time then being able to cope with the twins, I was having a really hard, trouble breathing.

P: My husband said well I was pregnant with just a single term like Darth Vader at night.

Trying to breath Right, so I can’t even imagine how you’ve gotten this far.

S: Yeah, I at that point it was, it was getting to the point I could walk from my bed to our on suite, and I would sound like I was an asmatic….my stomach was so big I just felt like all my organs are really constricting and I was just sort of like, like gasping for air. So I thought, this is the point I think I can’t, I don’t think I could do another week, when it came to that, we had the had the induction and again I was worried about the cervix, but when they did the check my cervix was down, so it just felt like this way the worry and it wasn’t as big as the worry because of what happened during the second birth, but it was still a concern within my mind because I still had that sometimes that little bit of a trigger as to oh my god, am I going to feel this game, I had the, the Foley bowl. And that was successful that had fallen out, I was getting contractions. I had a grade two an epidural as though I was happy for that in the birth was progressing really well. And when I got to about six centimeters, baby, as heart rate started to then drop really low. Every time I was having a contraction, to the point where I had so many people in the birthing space in terms of medical professionals. When this was all happening. And so I knew that things were changing and the lack of product necessary was likely to happen. And so, before they even told me I knew it was going to end up necessary, and they were really lovely about a really took the time to sit down and brief with me as to why this is Erin was going to happen but concerned about baby’s a heart rate, I could see the heart rate drop really low, even like my husband each time when the first time it happened he stood up really concerned as well so I understood the severity of it, and really appreciated that I was being told up front on information, you know, my husband was getting changed again and that I, I did have a little cry, and it wasn’t so much on that I was gonna end up zero. Yeah, it was just like it’s really acknowledging what was happening at that time and just to sort of let that out so then I could approach the next phase of the birth in a really good mentality site because I didn’t have that mentality so when I had the searing for my first, and this one was more of a rushed Susteren so I was you know that bit more of rushed down the hallways, and even though it had that more urgency to the birth. In my mind it was also a lot more calm up because I was more conscious of what was happening, and it wasn’t a trauma for me, compared to what happened in the first, so I just had one recommendation when we’re in there I said I don’t know the gender of the babies so when you get the babies. Yeah, I don’t want you to tell me the babies, I want my husband to told me. So when they, when baby a came out, it was, you know baby eyes out, and they didn’t tell me that they’re six, my husband had said to me off. It’s a, it’s a three to one. Now when it comes to babies and we’re you know, have we got a boy you only guys here can you believe it, we’ve got a boy and a girl because we always joked that we were going to have girls, and my husband just needs to grow up in a house of women. It was a surprise to, to then have a boy and a girl so a baby a was a boy, and Baby B was that girl, they think that the reason why baby’s heart rate was going down extremely low every time I had a contraction was because the cord was wrapped around his neck, three times. Oh well, I was in the hospital for a couple of days, I was the one who wanted to leave the hospital early so they said you know between so we’re happy to have me evening longer in the hospital. In the end this is still a public hospital system, but I wanted to get home because I knew going home, I would have my support that I needed my support network. I also knew that I had my other children, I felt like the recovery from that C section was extremely better than the first as well I don’t know if it’s whether because I knew what was going to happen. And so to be aware of how I move and things like that, and had these two healthy babies that were 6.7 and seven points counts, so

P: Wow.  That’s amazing. And how was it having them home but twins seem tricky to me, like, like a lot of work. Yeah,

S: I was really grateful that my babies were healthy and was able to take them home. It was, it was different having to try to get my groove on feeding the two and sort their sleeping arrangements and stuff, one would wake up half an hour before the other and stuff like that so, which is understandable because they’re two completely different babies so it was trying to each of their cues and and different stuff like that. And I guess also for me and especially as I’ve grown older as well like understanding the urgencies of their cries as to which baby I may need to attend first because the other hand is organizing getting their bottle ready or things like that as well. I especially if I was by myself so not being so hard on myself I can pick both up at the same time, and not put so much guilt and shame, you know, shame on myself if I couldn’t do things so I felt like because I, after my second year, I managed to mentally get my head around to a degree that I was happy with that I really felt like it gave me a good chance throughout the twin pregnancy to really be compassionate to myself because I wasn’t after my first, and I was learning from my second, and then with the twins, I was a lot better off that like I did learn a lesson from each one and you get better mentally within my mind after each one as well.

P: Yeah, that seems amazing and lucky that the twins came last because,

S: oh yeah,

P: like I mean just I would imagine you’re just feeding all the time, right, there’s Yeah, people and they both need stuff and

S: see and then you still have two other children to care for and

P: thank you so much for sharing this story, it’s such a good story of learning, yeah evolution is pretty quick because you’re able to squeeze the lesson of each pregnancy in time to use it for the next one.

S: Yes.

P: So, one last question. You were a policewoman but you changed careers, what do you do now.

S: I am a trauma informed EFT practitioner AF T stands for Emotional Freedom Techniques and really is more acupuncture for emotions so to speak, use your meridian points, and instead of using little needles you use your fingers and fingertips, and you tap on your meridian points, which is predominantly on your face, upper body and your hands, and with that it really just helps calm your nervous system. So helps you get out of that fight or flight response as well as your freeze response back into your social engagement sewing is only feeling safe from working in emergency services of I was surrounded by trauma, all the time, whether that’s with the public that I was helping that my colleagues, or even myself so I used EFT on myself, and I found at times when I was in certain situations with the public that I would be helping them, calm down by doing EFT tapping with them, and it just you service sort of comes becomes your medicine so to speak, and so I got my qualification and now I help others.

P: That’s awesome. Well thank you so much for coming on and thanks for sharing your story, it’s a it’s a great one to have out there.

S: It’s okay thank you so much for having me Paulette I really appreciate it.

Thanks again to Dr Matityahu for coming on the show and sharing her insights, she and I had a much longer conversation that I included here if you want to hear the whole conversation, go to war stories for womb.com and check it out. Thanks also to Stacey for sharing her story. And thank you so much for listening. If you like this episode, feel free to like and subscribe. We’ll be back soon with another story of women’s strength and resilience to overcome the many challenges involved in creating a family.