Today’s guest encountered her own set of surprises in pregnancy and birth. Because she gave birth almost two decades ago, she didn’t have easy access to the overwhelming amount of information that’s available now, we had kids before the iPhone was a thing and before the internet was the endless warehouse of information it is today, but she forged her path to parenthood, without immersing herself in the baby and parenting books that we had access to and learned a lot from the process itself. Another thing to know about Julie: she is a radio personality, which means, among other things, that she’s charismatic, she can talk and she’s got a voice like butter.
You can find Julie’s book, From Conception to Confusion, here
Breech position
https://www.verywellfamily.com/how-to-turn-a-breech-baby-2758443#external-cephalic-version
Breast milk during pregnancy
Audio Transcript
Paulette: Hi, welcome to war stories from the Womb. I’m your host Paulette kamenecka. I’m an economist and a writer, and I took the path of most resistance on my way to becoming a mother of two kids. Like me, today’s guest, Julie encountered her own set of surprises in pregnancy and birth. Julie and I are about the same age. We both have older teenagers, so we didn’t have easy access to the overwhelming amount of information that’s available now, we had kids before the iPhone was a thing and before the internet was the endless warehouse of information it is today, but she forged her path to parenthood, without immersing herself in the baby and parenting books that we had access to and learned a lot from the process itself. Another thing to know about Julie: she is a radio personality, which means, among other things, that she’s charismatic, she can talk and she’s got a voice like butter….Let’s listen to her story.
Hi, thanks so much for coming on the show, can you introduce yourself and tell us where you’re from.
Julie: I’m really excited to be here, Paulette thank you so much. My name is Julie Davidson and I hail from the Midwest, and we’re talking birth stories today, huh?
P: we certainly are. I’m very excited, before you got pregnant, I think he just mentioned he had two kids so before you got pregnant with either of them. You must have had some idea of what pregnancy would be like, what were you imagining,
J: Don’t we all think we know exactly what it’s gonna be like, right, and I don’t know, I think you and I talked about this briefly in our correspondences, I wrote a book and I am telling you that not so people go by the book, but because I was blindsided. I thought this was going to be like. Easy peasy, and I said no, somebody needs to hip people the fact that it’s not textbook, right, and it’s not what you might think, you know I babysat starting when I was 11 years old. I came from a two parent household I went to college,
I checked all the boxes that I thought would maybe help me get a leg up, so to speak, you know, when it comes to parenting again babysitting I came from a family of six, I you know
P: Oh wow
J: I, yeah, I’m the youngest so it’s not like it didn’t need babysitting in my family except maybe for my, my nephews at some point. So I thought, I mean, how hard could it be right I mean there’s books there’s doctors there’s millions, billions of people in the world right, so it just can’t be that bad. I figured it was going to be–it’s not that I thought it’d be easy, I just thought it would be different than it was. And I intentionally also did not read pregnancy books because I didn’t want anyone to spoil it for me. Plus them, I don’t think I’m opinionated, but I wanted to have my own idea of how is this, you know how this is going to go down, but fortunately I actually was pregnant, concurrent with a friend of mine from college. And so she was a couple weeks ahead of me and so she would tell me certain things and I was like okay so I would look for this or look for that but I think it was especially the birth was much different than I had planned, even taking birthing classes was just, you know, I thought it was going to be a riot and it was, I mean, there was like homework I don’t remember exactly what it was but I remember thinking, oh shoot, we didn’t, we didn’t go through this part of that plan, you know, And you know as far as like the education piece, just kind of didn’t even pay attention to the part where they’re talking about, hey, if you have a Cesearan this is how this might go and guess who had a cesarean in the first time around.
P: Yeah. Yeah,
J: it’s me, so that was that was rather interesting for me. I think if anything, I would want people to know, everybody’s experience is different, and if you feel nauseous and I’ve had friends who felt nauseous their entire pregnancy. That’s not necessarily a bad thing because maybe your sister didn’t feel nauseous and you do. It’s okay, you know, but I think you have this being growing inside of you, you feel like no, I’ve got to get it right. What does that mean, you know, what does that really mean. So,
P: I definitely put that to the test. So, I’m with you. So let’s start with the first one did you get pregnant easily.
J: No Yes, yes and no. I think one of the biggest things that I struggled with were people giving unsolicited advice before you get pregnant, you know when you’re dating somebody. It’s when you get to get engaged as soon as you get engaged when you get married when you get married, then it’s, what are you gonna have kids, when when when. And so the moment you start telling people you’re thinking about it I was getting all kinds of advice and I have not had the best gynecological history, meaning I had periods that were really long and then I would not have periods so I was, I just knew this was going to take years and people said, you’re on birth control, you’ll probably need to be off for you know maybe upwards of, 12 months and I thought, you know, this is this is going to be interesting. So, I include them in my book, is that even getting pregnant, like, obviously there’s a science to it, but it’s not just, hey let’s, let’s be intimate. Let’s make love, and, you know, have a baby but I was pretty intent on. Hey, this ovulation thing which no one, by the way, Paulette no one talks about ovulation, until maybe when you’re trying to get pregnant I didn’t, I didn’t find that out in like middle school and high school biology my girlfriends and I weren’t talking about it, maybe I was just in the wrong girlfriend group, right, but no one talks about ovulation. So when I finally realized what it was, I had it, you know down pat, I was like, Okay, it’s time. You know I really, once I was. And I remember it, we got to a point where my husband said, I might regret this. But I don’t think I can have sex for a really long time. You know, we were doing it that often because I really wanted to I was, I was in a hurry I wanted to get pregnant. I think it went off the pill and within three months, I was pregnant.
P: Oh good, good so relatively quick. That was quick.
J: However, we did six weeks in I did have a miscarriage and I was just I was just a deflated and I just thought, What did I do wrong, you know I must have done something wrong, and I knew I didn’t do anything wrong, but I still felt like. But, that being was inside me like how did, how could this have happened. And another thing when I was doing more blogging, that I every time I would write about miscarriage. I would get people messaging me and saying thanks, I had one too. Again, something we’re not talking about I’m not saying we need to go on Facebook Live and say hey I had a miscarriage, did you, but people really feel isolated and they feel bad and you know, maybe some a certain amount of depression. When that happens, and kind of loss, who do you talk to right, get in when you get a puppy. You’ve got a friend to call you know when you graduate from college, you’ve got family there for you, but when you have a miscarriage, it’s kind of like, oh, who can I tell, so you’re part embarrassed part, you know, and then physically you’re also not quite, you know you’re a little bit of a hormonal mess or you can be. So, we were excited, and then we weren’t. And, but we, you know, so to speak, back up on the horse, there’s probably a bad expression to use but
P: Your husband won’t mind.
J: No, he won’t thank you very much. And then we kept at it, and I honestly can’t remember exactly how long but I think within a few more months, I was pregnant again. And then we’re pregnant with our first, our first son who is now 18 years old.
P: That’s awesome. And what was that pregnancy, like,
J: you know, you hear stories from people saying, I’m craving this I’m craving that and that’s a crock Don’t be crazy or anything, you just, You’re just hungry because you’re just because you can be bright or whatever cravings are real, those cravings are so real. Chili Cheese dogs. Those were so good and they’ve never been so good since. Chili Cheese dogs and bacon cheese biscuit. And whatever you call about the cravings were, don’t get me something else like don’t just give me a bagel and cream cheese and tell me it’s bacon egg and cheese biscuit. If I asked for bacon, egg and cheese biscuit, could you please give me a bacon, egg and cheese biscuit, and they weren’t like I didn’t have anything in the middle of night, nothing like that no pickles and ice cream, but my husband was definitely going on some runs and it seemed like that was done after the second trimester. I’m not a huge fan of vegetables. I forced myself to eat broccoli, I was walking I was intentional, you know that this kid was gonna if they’re gonna have bad eating habits. Okay, minus the beginning of cheese biscuit. They weren’t gonna it wasn’t gonna be my fault, so I tried to walk I tried to eat as much broccoli as I possibly could. I stopped, I have ethnic hair, I’m African American and so I was relaxing my hair up until I got pregnant, so I was putting chemicals in my hair and I talked to my doctor after the miscarriage and I said, Do you think that this could cause a miscarriage and he’s like no I don’t think it would cause a miscarriage, but there are other things that it does to your body so I think if you want to stop now may be a good time. So I stopped and I haven’t gone back and never smoked. I mean I smoked previous to being pregnant like casual and socially and I’m pretty social person so that ended up being more smoking than anybody should ever do, but just completely stopped that no, no soda, while I was pregnant,
P: Yeah
J: coffee, you know, none of that so I, I followed some rules or things I thought were, you know, helped me be as healthy, you know, for the baby, and just really, I just remember being really tired. Yeah like so tired, thinking wait a minute, we actually have to legally work when we’re pregnant, like, this is how am I going to, how am I going to, how am I going to do this, and my own physician told me when she was in medical school, my OB GYN she said there was no mercy. She said we had to you know go along with the rest of the group pregnant or not and so I now have much more empathy, you know for for pregnant people I’m I’m holding that door I’m getting your groceries I’m doing whatever I can because I just it was good sleep, it was good tired but you said I still had to go to work so that that’s what I remember most mainly about the first trimester.
I’m a nervous person. And I think through the second trimester, I was, you know, just getting everything in order, and probably on the range of, you know, OCD and I mean that truly, and I wanted everything to match. Cougars are crap with the baby, because when they puke, that you know you. You’re not thinking thank goodness I got a matching swing to the you know the pack in play here
P: but it’s the it’s the only thing you can control.
J: You know what, thank you. Thank you for saying that, you’re absolutely right, is only thing I can control. So I remember we had just gotten some cool furniture and I was like, Oh, we’re having a baby and now this cool furniture is gonna be interspersed with all this kid stuff, grateful. I’m grateful. And these are, when I say this, I also understand, I am coming from a place of like, first world, you know,
P: yeah, yeah,
J: you know, mentality. But nonetheless, everything was kind of a sage green checkered color the swing the pack can play the baby, the infant carrier and the stroller and I just thought this is, this is great, we’re so set, you know, so it’s constantly getting the house ready, and also the car seat, you know we have Children’s Hospital here in Milwaukee, and actually made a really good friend there who was kind of the head of the safety division there had to make sure that well in advance that car seat was in correctly because I remember hearing a lot of very smart people say, car seats are really, really tricky like it’s not just popping in, like, you can,
P: yeah, yeah
J: your kid is rolling around and I know that I rolled around, probably as a kid, but we know that that’s not safe, like that’s not that’s not the way to do it. So you know getting things like that in place the baby’s room, and then you’re gonna have to worry about what if the baby doesn’t like me. What if he comes out. Just
P: Julie all I can say is I’ve known you for 20 seconds and that seems impossible to go let’s forget where we’re going.
J: But I remember thinking, what like what is this child is comes out I was like, like I’m not. No, I don’t. And so there were these, you know these anything people have these a lot like your self sabotage and, yeah, that wasn’t long lasting, but it was, it was definitely there and we did decide to find out as much as I think life has so few surprises. Why would you find out the sex of a baby except that you do like to control some things and you might want to know, and I believe it was when we’re having one of the sonogram,
P: yeah the 20 week ultrasound?
J: Yeah. and I think the tech was just getting annoyed because my husband was like well we should find out and I was like no, I don’t know. And then he said no we probably shut down like but you know we really don’t want to. And my husband said, Oh, it’s better to girl, I bet it’s a girl. And then the tech said well it’s a good thing you’re not a betting man, and it’s fine if you don’t really I mean, honestly, it’s like come on speed it up I’ve got other patients to see and you’re having a boy and, you know for planning purposes. I don’t get caught up in the pink and blue but I didn’t want to start off, you know, necessarily putting our son in a dress if he wants to later I don’t have a problem with that and I mean that sincerely but it was kind of helpful, like,
P: Yeah,
J: who wanted to get things for us. I had some worries and just kind of getting things together and organized through that second trimester third trimester. I don’t know if it’s hormonal what kicks in, but something protects you because I, I’m gonna tell you right now I am a wuss. And I can take care of cuts I can deal with throw up if I absolutely have to like nobody’s around within 20 miles, but I remember, before getting pregnant being really petrified of birth, like this is gonna hurt, I’m going to die, or I’m going to pass out i just i That’s all I could focus on was the pain. Right, and that’s that’s kind of how I am and that’s not good, I realized that come third trimester,and maybe because I was just so physically uncomfortable. Yeah, I was I was okay. Any day now just, just let let this child, you know, so that last trimester, you know, the first trimester, you wonder when you’re going to start showing.
P: Yeah,
J: because you kind of want to tell people we’re praying or pregnant and he and I want to also say when we had the miscarriage I wanted wanted to know should I tell people we’re pregnant the first time should we. And I did I have a big mouth surprise and so I ended up having to tell a lot of people that you know that we had a miscarriage and so this time I don’t I still don’t think we waited any longer to tell people, that’s just, that’s just how I spent the first trimester, wanted to be a little bigger. And, you know, showing off and buying maternity clothes because it was fun, you know, you get to go to your special section.
P: Yeah, yeah
J: get to register for baby stuff, and that cuteness kind of wore off by, you know, I’d say month seven.
P: Yeah, yeah,
J: you know, but what other time of life can you consider being larger than your standard size queue, because right now I’m not my standard size now. I’m also not feeling so cute but still that those last few months, I was just feeling, you know, big, and ready, and not as nervous, just because I think I was more focused on right now, when’s this gonna happen. No, how’s this going down, right at that point I’m adopted. So I don’t have any birth stories to compare like biologically, some people say oh my mom went through this so I’m going to, I didn’t know any of that at that point. So, everything was just kind of like, you know, bring it. And I want to say he was early oh we had some Braxton Hicks, or they like false
P: it’s like contractions but you’re not you’re not progressing toward labor.
J: Yeah, though they need to outlaw those, because when you start getting something in they’re like well yeah they’re kind of contractions that I’m packed, I’m ready, like can you just reach up there, just grab him, you know, so I was having some Braxton Hicks and then they said, No, you’re this is you’re not near it. Another thing people don’t really talk about. Maybe I should have read books but I didn’t want to, is that mucus plug. First of all, it’s that sounds disgusting it kind of sounds like what clogs up your drain right like
P: it definitely needs better marketing for.
J: Right, exactly. And I remember hearing about the mucus plug well i When mucus plug came out, I was, I was never so excited to have some bodily fluid exit my body I don’t think ever. And so when that happened, it was kind of, you know go time, and we went to the hospital. And I was so excited cuz I’m having contractions and I’m thinking this isn’t bad. What are people complaining about like this is nothing. And we got there and the reason it was nothing is two centimeters or something and I got a younger nurse, a less experienced that younger but she was not as experienced so she’s doing a thing with her hands and
P: wait, one second….where are we in your pregnancy…was it 30, did you say is it like 38 weeks?
J: I think it was like two weeks early. Yeah, two weeks or two weeks early, so not super early not not overly concerning, but I was mad because they sent me home. And they said the nurses, you know, she’s a little newer and you’re not dilated enough I’m like, but I’m packed, I’m here I’ve got really good insurance, just you know what, yeah, literally the car seat, all of it. they said, Oh, you need to go home so I’m now mad I’m like, oh, And so now like okay, every I’m hypersensitive to everything can happen now, do I have to wait on you know, immense pain when the I started bleeding. I thought, oh okay this this is definitely this is definitely not good, not, not heavy bleeding but spotting.
P: Yeah,
J: I don’t think this is part of it so this is now I’ve gone in, they’ve sent me home, that next day, responding so I go to my doctor. And I’ve known her now probably for just round up to 30 years, I mean she’s she’s fabulous. I go in and she’s, you know, got me on the table and she says, When did your water break. And I’m literally thinking to myself, I’ve been pissing on myself for three months, how, what do you want to break like what what is, how would I know like nobody there was no alert to say, you know, water breaking water, I didn’t know what I just said I sometime in the last nine months I really didn’t know how to answer that. And I, you know, I said what what do you think, and she said, Well, he’s breech. And he was, butt first, which isn’t that a way to enter the world, you know, look at me folks as out first. Remember I was afraid this kid wasn’t gonna like me. And so she said very little fluid flinch when I even think about her saying this and she said, I don’t feel comfortable reaching up and turning up, like what do you do that with like a plunger, like,
P: a little unclear,
J: you know, like I yeah maybe we shouldn’t be sticking any hands up there right now.
P: Here’s some details about the breech position. It happens when the baby’s feet limbs or butt is basically cervix is further head and breech babies can be delivered vaginally, but it looks like there are risks to the baby associated with this kind of delivery and often a C section is recommended. It’s common for a baby in reach position to flip before delivery, only about three to 4% of babies are in breech position by 37 weeks. Although there are a number of different ways to try to get a baby to flip one that’s been studied is external cephalic version ECV. It involves a doctor trying to manipulate the baby’s position by pressing on the pregnant woman’s abdomen.
J: So she said we need to do a C section and at that point, I just remember her talking and it was kind of like going on I did it in the six o’clock office did it doctor and just, I didn’t, I couldn’t focus. Then I said wait what are we, what’s happening. And she said, you need to do, cesarean. I said, Well, who’s on call. I didn’t want anybody else.
P: Yeah,
J: and the perfect thing and she said I’m on call. And this is wonderful. She later told me that she was concerned for my anxiety level because she the due date, she was planning to be out of town. She knew that, You know, I probably follow her, right, like hey, sorry about your Disney plans,
P: Yeah, knock knock
J: It’s me. So the reason my contractions weren’t the kind where you scream, is because I didn’t get to full on contractions cuz I remember thinking, This is bad. I am really amazing, I am tough I am strong. I could do this all day long, so we spent the better part, I think you the Cesarean was planned for 630. So I think about four o’clock we’re in the hospital and calling people and telling people and, you know, that was really exciting, it really was like I’m gonna have a baby, and you know everybody’s saying I’m gonna pray I’m gonna come up there and just I just feel emotional sorry. Just amazing.
P: That’s all right. That’s awesome.
J: Wow, I don’t know where that came from, but it was just it was more beautiful than I ever thought it just, I mean, on one hand it was kind of, it was very scary, because I’m in a room and you know people have their faces covered up, I can see my doctor, but I remember shivering, quite a bit because it was cold in that room. So I’m on my back and they’re prepping me for the series and then. So my knees are up, legs are spread open, and if I’m not mistaken, and this, this, annoyed me is my arms were down, like they kind of had me restrained, I think that what they would do with everybody but I just remember not being able to like move around and you know they’re sharp instruments, I think that’s a good thing. So, I just remember them, kind of, minute by minute telling me what we’re doing, just saying, you know, we’re almost done. Now we’re at the second layer and I’m like layer like
P: this is getting graphic.
J: Yeah, it was like yeah layer like this like a seven layer like a salad like what how many, and then you just wish I wish I paid attention to biology or in that pregnancy class maybe a little bit, because I didn’t again I didn’t pay attention to the Cesarean part because, I wasn’t gonna have one right yeah, there was no pain I felt really no pain I was pretty much numb. And I just remember, okay you know we have them and I gonna try not to lose it and they, you know, they held them over me and you know most babies because they come out of the vagina or I believe most babies do right, they have kind of that conehead that kind of, you know. Noooo, perfect, perfect shape perfect color. And I just remember looking at them, and they had to hold them over me and I’m like, oh there’s a baby in the air. They just held it because I could not sit up and just said, he looks healthy. And I just remember, you know, I looked at him and he just great, which of course the beautiful month, but it was, I was scared I was like, Well, you’ve just got here do like you really shouldn’t be upset, and then my thoughts turned to, They said, Well now we need to take in for testing, you know, just honestly, I don’t even know what they do, you know, I think they tested for hearing and heart rate, you know, just, yeah, I don’t know but there’s probably a million like a checklist that they have I’m sure there is. And I really wasn’t privy to that but I remember, like, where’s my kid. What are you doing, where you going, and where’s my husband and he said, I’m right here. I said okay, and I said well you go with a baby so I will and I was just I was so afraid that I can’t get up, I now can’t touch my baby. Where’s my baby. Where’s my baby going I mean that wasn’t fantatical about it like I was fairly calm but at least in my head I remember thinking, Where is he so me back up all those layers, and I get wheeled into what I think would be like a recovery room and a waiting room. I still haven’t seen my kid. My husband comes in. My friends come in. And I think, like, what, there’s just so you know there’s nothing wrong to baby, there was nothing wrong, it was just doing whatever they do with babies when they don’t give them back to mom, because they had to run tests. And so, I’m a little loopy, because they have you on something.
And remember saying, so I’m African American adopted by a white family it is important because I said something to one of the nurses about. I was expecting my brother to come see me. And I said, Oh, yeah. My brother’s coming he’s got blond hair, I’m only telling you that and maybe in case you see him and she said well, actually, he’s already held the baby. So I’m like, Okay, folks, is there really a baby, because apparently everybody seen this child. And I want to really make sure there’s a baby, and she said yeah he came in at the right time. I think my husband was with our son, Myles is our son’s name. My husband Charles I believe that the baby and then handed them, handed him to my brother or the nurse to I don’t know if my brother was like, they might need to tighten security you know because he said I got to hold this baby pretty quickly but, you know, and I wish I seen this my brother said, I guess he started crying, immediately we held him he’d never he’d never held such a tiny being his life,
And now if you put the my brother with my son, my brother would have to look up to my son because my son is about six six, you know, six foot one and then I remember being happy that my friends were there but just some of the things that they give you just not filled out completely, they’re one of my friends said you know what, why don’t we leave so the first time you meet your baby you can be alone. And I was like thank you because I didn’t want to tell anybody that yeah, you know, and then I remember there were some antics with one of my friends with her husband whom they’re, they’re now divorced and he was kind of being as normal and it just goes. It’s funny how life still happens, right, like all this other background noise, and I was like, I just want to see the baby.
And then they brought him in, and I don’t even honestly remember my first thought I had already seen him but then I got to hold him. And, you know, you’re just like, wow, I’ve been planning for this and it’s like, wow, you’re here, you’re really here. And after that, It quickly turned to how to breastfeed him and I had that was probably the most difficult thing with him is breastfeeding him, which you think are could this be I’ve had boobs all my life this is what they’re for. Come on, let’s go you know it’s not for ladies night anymore now it’s for the baby right, and it was difficult because he would, he was not latching correctly, it wasn’t his fault. The nurses were always around me, trying to get these nipple shields and just getting it right and I was able to give him milk but it was, it was wrong, the way it was happening was wrong because my head hurt intensely from my neck up to the top of my head. And so they tried, you know as best as they could.
Luckily a few days after I got into the hospital, my sister in law who is a an OB GYN nurse practitioner and lactation consultant.
P: oh my G-d
J: She left her family and permanently. She, she, my brother had three boys, and she left them and came to take care of us I think for the better part of a week or more, I don’t know it might have even been two weeks it was, it was like a godsend because my husband’s mother’s passed away. My mother is not living and so we’re just we’re going to do it on our own she offered and we’re like, oh this is golden. Yeah, but in the hospital I had problems nursing, and I was kind of freaked out. I mean when I was coming out people in the hospital, it seemed like for ages, and now it’s like, treat them in street em… and I think to maybe day three, I want to say with this this area near a little more, I think there’s three days, and I remember feeling kinda weak being kind of like, Oh, what am I going to do, how do I do this, and I said to the doctor, can I stay another day. I said I’m not ready and usually that wouldn’t be like me I would be really tough and I can do this, I got it, I wasn’t feeling tough. I was feeling really freakin scared, and she said, I don’t, I don’t know if you can usually four days is the max but she said let me check your insurance. My husband has a really really good insurance and so I get to stay another day,
Our son was born in Friday the 13th think you know superstitious until you have to have a child on Friday the 13th And I thought, Well, isn’t this interesting, not a lot of people up here in the in the, the baby Ward on Friday the 13th as if they’re all closing their legs just wait until the 14th or push it out and let’s well so I thought, I remember hearing him just the nurses would bring him down, he’d be screaming, you know, it’s feeding time, like we’re all the other moms, so where are the other babies, I’m sure there were some I just didn’t pay attention to that so I got an extra day. And, and it was, it was time for me to go. And I’m sweating. I don’t know how much is hormones and how much is, I don’t know. and getting dressed.
and just feeling that sad, just a little bit scared, yeah you know like, I’m supposed like you’re getting give me this baby like, do I need to I need to sign something. Do I have to get a certification, like, should I take another class,
P: it seems way too easy right when you walk.
J: Yeah, like, I mean this whole time, this is what, you know, women’s bodies in part, are made for, but all of a sudden I was just, oh no about this and so we went down and my husband was going to go get the car and drive it up and I just remember I couldn’t even get him in the car seat I’m like oh my gosh I can’t you know the straps and I’m already like I’m losing it. So I finally got him in there. And then that unsolicited advice starts, I got enough unsolicited crap. When I was pregnant, and so this older woman, she looked at me and she said well how do you think I felt I was like oh no, no, what do you
P: what does that mean, right, and she said,
J: My baby was colicky till he was six months, years, six months old and I was like, Oh, I’m sorry. I just thought, what a nice way to send me off from the hospital,
P: I totally agree. I totally agree…totally wacky…got any good car accident stories? because we’re about to get the car
J: and that’s another thing the whole car right that’s another thing. I just, I just realized how bad of a driver everybody in the entire world was.
P: Yes, totally.
J: And I kept thinking why is this car so close, and should my husband be breaking right now. Are they did you put the blinker on, is it, did you check me just literally and it’s about a 20 minute drive from one side of town to another, and we made it home made it home, and as you’re putting him in his crib and I’m like, good Lord this crib is huge. He just looked like a little peanut in there, and we waited for my sister in law a lot of come a couple days later because we were very nervous that we weren’t feeding him enough, and so I was, I would talk to my brother and he’s like, maybe you can give them, like, just regular like, you know, formula, and she’s like, don’t tell him that. And he’s like, Are you afraid that you’re not good that he’s not going to gain any weight, and I said yeah, and so we went to the doctor said okay if your sister in law is coming that’s fine I mean we were feeding him, it just wasn’t the amount we wanted to but as soon as she came in, I call her the nipple whisperer.
She came in
P: that’s some title.
J: Right. So you went to school and what do you do I’m a nipple whisper,
P: I hope that title comes with a sash,
J: it does it does she just doesn’t do remember that. And so she came in, and dropped her bags you know her husband went to the airport, she came in, and you know you have to understand she’s an oldest child and she’s very, very smart, very caring, very giving and very knowledgeable with this this is her knows what she’s doing and she said okay, like what what’s going on. She’s like, shut up. She’s like, get him on this side. He wasn’t rude and we should, but she was like, Okay, we’re not just here to watch you know HGTV, we did do a lot of that but at first we had to get the baby to latch. And then she said, Excellent. And I was like, what, what, she’s never even seen my boobs like how are you. And she said, Okay, let’s take them off, put them on the left side, you know, do whatever she needed to do and, and that was it. I mean and I just I couldn’t, I could not have done it without her. There was absolutely no way because it wasn’t, we weren’t gonna hire anybody and I wasn’t gonna keep running back to the doctor’s office, I would have caved and I thought this is the one time I can really start them out right, I mean, for all the good things that breastfeeding has and I just I cannot thank her enough.
A few months later, another sister in law came to town and I wanted to be tough, I had to go give the baby, you know, give him his shots. And she said, Do you want me to come with you. No, no I’ll be fine. I’ll be fine. Oh my gosh, those baby shots.
You know they’re trying to kill my baby. I mean obviously they’re not, but it was, you know, so people are always, you know, very happy to help and, you know, reach out as they could, but most of my family doesn’t live here in town, I have one brother and sister in law. So that was that was my first was my first birth story.
P: That’s awesome and you know it’s a steep learning curve right is it is, it’s a ton of on job training that you like. Luckily the baby doesn’t hold it against you. You don’t know anything right there’s just, there’s no, I remember the exact thing you’re describing leaving the hospital thinking you’re sending me home with this child and you’re imagining I know what I’m doing or that I’m responsible and who could say, right, you know i There’s no proof of that every plant has died under my care. So it does feel like a giant leap of faith to
J: it’s huge.
P: Yeah, leave the hospital.
P: It’s so huge, and I didn’t think that going into it, it was just really those final hours and then upon arrival at home. And I think there’s just a mixture of it I think there’s a lot to be said for your biology, right, like, your body has just gone through this in hormonal change, and when you left. Leave. Three people you’re returning your I return three people you know and so that was, you know, and then I was probably not too kind to the dogs was afraid the dog would get too close and it just, it was, it was a little, I was a little bit of a hot mess, and I feel like, each time I had a child, I feel like it took me about six months to really fully engage with the world in a fairly normal way, I think some people jump back in more quickly, but I just took me a little while, I was also the person who didn’t want to get a babysitter, like, ever, ever, ever, ever.
And then finally we got a babysitter. I made it. I made it the first I think it was six months old, she was awesome. She went to the University of Marquette University here in Milwaukee, she’s a nursing student and happened to date one of my nephew’s at one time it was awesome, but I was sweating bullets.
P: Yeah, Yeah,
J: everybody, everybody, everybody’s enjoying their dinner, and I’m getting up from the table to make a call to see, you know, the baby, the baby fart, you know, did he is he sleeping what foot what’s he doing, you know, is he going and I probably should have, you know, trusted other people similar to that but I just, I didn’t. So,
P: that is, oh I think an experiential thing, right, it’s hard to know ahead of time and I think it’s probably best to be consistent with your feeling so it sounds like he did have a right
J: I did, for sure, for sure.
P: So the second one comes pretty quickly. What is that planned or
J: yeah you know it’s funny and some people might not appreciate this, people would look at our boys because they’re so close in age and there’s, they would say, Irish twins. And I would say no African American twins and that never really goes over very well because they’re like well what is that.
P: Oh my god. That’s so funny.
J: It just makes people feel really awkward and it wasn’t intended to I was just trying to, you know, I was Irish twins to under 12 months. Yeah, yeah, that’s a, that’s a really special vagina right there’s all I can tell people, I just I can’t even imagine their data how that happens, but I know how it happens. So our boys are 16 and a half months apart. Every month counts, I mean literally like I think 16 and a half would have been easier than 15 and a half would have been easier than 14 and a half. It really was planned. You know, we knew we wanted to expand the family, and I think it was 34, the 3436 34 I don’t, I don’t know how long it was, but we thought why not like we’re already down on sleep.
P: Yeah, yeah
J: we’ve got everything we need. And let’s do it and I remember. We weren’t trying all the time we just knew that we weren’t going to, you know, start up a bet on birth control. One of the signs was our oldest when he was nursing he pulled himself off one day, and he just kind of poked my breast and he was like, oh, like, This doesn’t taste right so I have a feeling that when you get pregnant, you know, something may have made the milk taste a little differently.
P: So, technically speaking, I don’t know how this question has been answered, but according to numerous sites on the Internet, the flavor of breast milk does change when you get pregnant because of hormonal shifts, and it may become less sweet and a bit saltier.
J: We got pregnant very easily I should say, I again kind of had those thoughts. What if, you know now what if our oldest son who now completely bonded with right. What if our oldest son, mad at me. And I like really lady, you live in a lot of what ifs and what about, but I was concerned because he was going everywhere with me, I was hanging out with him during the day, you know my husband would come home and he would you know take over, but during the day he was going with me we owned a rental property he was going over there if I had to clean him out or show a property, do the grocery shopping, I didn’t even my friends had their own kids, so I really didn’t have backup it’s not a boohoo, it’s just you know what, you know, It is what it is. And so I was really concerned about that, which never, it didn’t manifest everything was fine. And that birth was so you know when you have a C section, it’s risky to have a vaginal really know that at that time, I didn’t, and I’m glad I didn’t because I would have freaked out. Yeah, but the one thing that should have, you know, been a nod to that is the doctor said okay we need to have him delivered at a hospital. Your first son because if something happened to I think it’s like your uterus can collapse or something, you know, we have to be somewhere else, like, things can happen with a vaginal after cesarean, and you need to be prepared. It’s weird to go to a different hospital and we knew that in advance, it wasn’t like we switched during, you know, the birth. That was real birth.
That was the one that was the one
P: more respect for contractions coming from that experience
J: our oldest was always an early riser, so it was like okay, who’s gonna put five on Saturday morning. Okay, I’m praying that you when he got up, either Saturday morning, you know, five, I think, and he screamed really loudly we both remember he wasn’t feeling great and he screamed. And after that, husband just said, I’m gonna take you mommy’s looking pretty intense here and said, I think he needs to just just go downstairs and watch cartoons, and then all of a sudden, I let out a scream moves on, it was very, it was almost like I couldn’t control it, it wasn’t the pain. It was my water broke. It really breaks.
It’s, it’s, it, it was like, Oh, that’s…I’m glad I was at home because it was you know, a substantial amount amount, and I immediately started having contractions I think they started after the water broke.
And those suckers hurt, and we’re remember I’m the one who couldn’t, you know, people are like no could focus on mountains or an ocean, or listen to your breath. We don’t live by mountains, we don’t have an ocean. Yeah, and I don’t even know if I’m breathing, so like I all I could think of was the pain. And again, it’s the same side of town, we have to go on for this delivery, and my brother lives on that side and was going to come watch our older son, and I just said, Call, call my brother Jack. If he can’t make it here by X amount of time we’re taking our kid with us.
P: Yeah,
J: and Jack is a filmmaker, and so he directs commercials and all kinds of things I don’t even know all the things he does. But I say that because he will be on a shoot. Yeah, to what you know 11-12 At night when when places close and I think he had just gotten home at midnight, and maybe slept, you know, went to sleep at two and here we call him. He made in record time and this is February, you know, it’s to be careful on the roads in Wisconsin in February, and he made it, and I just remember being really relieved and just kind of like here’s the kid stuff just, you know, not my normal like over I’m sure I’ve written like I probably had three notes throughout the house on what to do and where to find stuff but I knew he was capable.
And I remember the pain was so intense kicking a cabinet at home like I was thinking it was like a nightmare, you know, I remember my brother saying to our son. Oh and mommy’s kicking things let’s go over here. I mean, I wasn’t hitting anybody, but I was just like, I was I needed an outlet, and it’s difficult because, as you can tell I’m fairly comfortable talking and these, these nearly stopped me from talking, and I thought well, this can’t be this. This world can’t have me not talking. So, we get to the hospital, and I’m just in so much pain and I’m petrified because I had not been through this before this is birth but this is birth, you know, with pain. And I remember my mouth was dry there’s a bottle of water in the van, and I’m watching it roll from one end to the other and I just wanted to open it but I was so afraid if I, I felt like any movement hurt more so I just tried to be really still and I was like, all the bumps on the road, this is just horrible. You know, fill these potholes already, we roll up to the hospital. It’s kinda like a movie, you actually get to drive up where it says emergency.
P: Yeah.
J: At least, that’s, that’s what we did, and the registration, and I’m like, I need something, I need something for the pain. I’m like, Can I get something like a beer or anything and my husband’s like, Oh my God, he’s like, this is the registration desk for everybody, like this woman can’t give you anything. And I’m like, but she needs to know I need help. And there weren’t a lot of people in the in the waiting room at that hour I think there’s a cleaning person who probably was really like oh my gosh, so we get rolled into a room and I’m basically like in so much pain that I’m just not an ideal patient, and I do recall one of the nurses saying we don’t scratch here, like she was trying to help me get my clothes off and somehow I scratched her. Oh my gosh this is such a mess, so they’re getting more and more intense. I mean these were like we were supposed to be where we were so that’s good.
And then they’re even discussing was there going to be time to give me an epidural, I said oh there’s going to be time. Give me,
P: We’ll make time
J: Give me the time, you can do. Give it to me. Just tell me what just tell me the general vicinity where I gotta poke myself. And as soon as that happened, I was right with the world. I will never pretend to be somebody who can withstand pain or have a natural birth and I really give kudos to people who, It’s possible I know people who did it, I’m not one. And I was, then all of a sudden just almost talking smack with people, it was, it was really it was very comfortable. And then I remember the anesthesiologist was there talking, and He said I’m going to leave. He said so and so was going to finish up and I said, oh, and I was really kidding I just said. So do you guys like split the proceeds then since they’re finishing and you started and he, he literally went into this explanation of how they get paid, I was like no I don’t, I don’t, I don’t really care like I was just being, this is how I am comfortable now, you know, so I’m sure he was happy to be off the job, I just remember hearing as a doctor here the doctors here okay doctors here and then just all of a sudden, boom, it was go time and it was, you know, telling you to push. I remember thinking, but I can’t feel anything like I don’t, I don’t think they’re like push towards your bottom but I’m like I think you took it away because I don’t feel my, my, but, and they’re saying push, and I’m trying to push and get sick once, and then, you know, some other things happen.
And I think he was out literally, like it was a dream like literally I think within a half hour 45 minutes like this was just, and there he was. And you know the phone’s ringing in people are talking and then the doctor had set aside the placenta,
P: yeah
J: and she knows my husband, and she knows he’s a science teacher, directly has taught science, and she said oh good you’re here want to show you the placenta so like they’ve got this field trip already there, and his phone’s ringing and it’s his best friend and I answer and he said Julie I said yeah. He said when you don’t answer the phone is what are you doing calling.
So, it was just much more different than the first one, and he, I nursed him right away.
P: Oh wow
J:like he, he went to different kids though I mean and I also was different mom to an extent now having that experience, and a few hours later that coincidentally my sister in law, she came back with this baby too. She didn’t know what they were going to have the baby, and my husband goes to pick her up and she sees he’s got a hospital band and she said, The baby came in, he said yeah today. So the timing couldn’t have been better. So they go and they pick up our son, or older son and bring him around just petrified that he is going to hate me…he didn’t hate me, even maybe at all. What do you know mom, he was more kind of curious about the you know the things in the hospital room and did anything have wheels can I push it around and that he looked at the baby, you know, is our younger son Max and that was it, you know, but much different birth, and two is more than one I can say that so that was more difficult but I had my self confidence was back and I physically felt better.
Even, you know, even though this is vaginal birth I mean I didn’t have any issues after having, you know, the cesarean, the first time around so, so all was good, and now they’re healthy and thriving. Through the pandemic chaos 17 You know 17 and 18 year olds and it’s funny, our oldest is working on a psychology project for high school for senior project, and he’s ta almost cried when he sent it to me he sent me this picture, it was a professional, you know you get professional shots with this, the first one, the poor second one, he didn’t get any but we’ll work on that. He sent a picture and he said, he said, look at this and I just said oh my goodness, and then he asked how he wanted to know more about like his births and how old he, you know, wasn’t that picture and it was just, it was very you know, it was very, very sweet to see him kind of taking an interest, you know, in that. That was really good about keeping bait photo albums until they were like five and six. And then, I don’t ever reason just nothing. So,
P: I’m impressed that you did that because it sounds like our kids are about the same age and like we didn’t have an iPhone.
J: I know,
P: I don’t know how you got those pictures right i Aren’t my kids don’t have like three pictures of their infancy and then like once the iPhone comes around this is Tuesday, right?.
J: That was supposed to be a project I thought before all this is at will now he’s 18. The struggle is, I literally everyone used to laugh I would have disposable cameras and then I had a digital one, but I would immediately get like two copies. Two or three I would either get like three or two, and one book for him, one book for his baby brother, and then a family album, so there wouldn’t have to be fighting and I just put them together and it was easy and that was sort of easy, but actually it got harder I think with the digital camera to now I’ve got to find out the smart cards or whatever the sims or whatever in there.
And then how many phones do I have I had census I probably had easily six phones. Yeah, there’s I did the photo album so what do I do dig up the phones in the car, like, how do you know, put those together so I’ve got to do some backtracking and I’ve just had to show myself some grace and do the best that I can but I really want each boy to have, you know something through their 18th year, and it’s not looking good at this point, you know,
P: I’ll keep fingers crossed for that for that a resuscitation of the old phones.
That sounds amazing, and, and you so clearly learned a lot from the first one, right, like the second one was different in a lot of way. If you could go back and give advice to your younger self, what do you think you would tell her.
J: Calm the f down….you know, which people would love to people tell me that now, it’s part of my nature is calm down, trust the people in the process.
Think I can trust the people, because you can kind of up who your people are, but the process was like, you know, scary, and maybe enjoy it more. I don’t think I dislike being pregnant I don’t remember thinking, Oh, I hate this and I was why I was mindful that there are people who cannot have cannot bear children.
P: Yeah,
J: right. I am very, I try to be very mindful that there was a point when, before I met my husband I bought real estate thinking, Okay, well I’m going to adopt babies because I’m clearly not meeting someone to have children with. So I It’s okay I will be a single mom, but I want to make sure to adopt. And we kind of joked about that now i i have commented about we’ve had babies everywhere except adoption one through the vagina one through the you know cesarean… adoptions, the only way left. But I think, to also enjoy that time right if I feel like with her first. When I was pregnant I remember thinking, you know, there’s a lot of laughs like it’s not going to be just my husband and I anymore so there was a lot of that but maybe to enjoy it more, I was home, ish. Both boys when they were little, I worked, I was able to work around having them with me at home during the day and then I would do radio at night. So, I appreciate that because there’s just, you don’t get those years back and those are some tough times being with them though too, and maybe ask people for help. Yeah.
You know, I don’t think it’s so much pride is I don’t want to be an inconvenience and I want to be a good friend. And I know if I ask for help. This is kind of horrible somebody else might ask and I might not be able to help them so it’s this weird mindset but don’t be afraid to ask. But I was because most of my friends were in the exact same spot, there are a couple of friends who, who chose not to have children and maybe I could have, you know, involved them a little more ask them for help, but I didn’t know what I didn’t know.
P: Yeah,
J: I know. And now and now I do, but I survived and I just I cannot believe people tell you that the time goes by so quickly. I know yes for one thing, but you’re going to get through it, whatever that moment is because, you know those nights where they’re sick.
And maybe you’re sick at the same time, or, you know, you find out maybe they, they have some special need of some sort, or, you know, you don’t know if you should stay home should you quit your job, all of that stuff. Those are, those are just their moments, their moments in time, and you’re going to get through it, but I just remember thinking, I’m going to be rocking a kid on my chest for the rest of my life and this is, this is really hard, and yeah, not at all. Ask for help, I think,
P: yeah, that’s a good message, and, and tell us about your book since it sounds like it’s about childhood and pregnancy and this, this process
J: from conception to confusion, it came from a succession of blogs I was blogging for my publisher, mimosa publishing, and they had put out books, it was a series called mommy, MD guides. These were books that were written by doctors like Who better to give advice than doctors, And they said, Well, we’ve never had anybody humorous…like you could be our first non US writer and I thought well this be great. That sounds very cool. And I will put a link to your book in the show notes so people can find it. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Perfect, thank you I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
P: thanks Again, Julie for sharing her story, I’ll put a link to her book from conception to confusion in the show notes. If you liked this episode, feel free to like and subscribe, and if you get a chance to leave a review, we totally appreciate reviews because it helps other people find the show. We’ll be back soon with another inspiring story about braving the many challenges this transition can hold.
